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Tweet or Not

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Big Thump, Sep 14, 2005.

  1. Big Thump

    Big Thump

    Jun 29, 2005
    North of 49
    Anybody else here find Tweets kinda suck ,I know the tweet on my peavey cab is'nt great, but all the higher end cabs IMO sound better, without the spitty tweet, seems to me a good bass cab does'nt really need it, unless your shattering glass or playing an old bassman.
  2. anyonefortennis

    anyonefortennis Supporting Member

    Jun 28, 2005
    Lincoln, NE
    I'm a big fan of sealed, tweeter-less cabs.

    There's something about ported cabs and tweeters that just does not cut it for me.
  3. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    There's a ton of threads on this issue... please do a search!

    I could not live without a good sounding tweeter for the sound I try to achieve.... Joe Beets thinks anyone who needs or uses a tweeter is a fool.... most other TBers fall somewhere between the two of us :D
  4. Aenema


    Apr 18, 2001
    i wouldnt be able to dial in my slap and tap tones without a tweeter. :bassist:
  5. Big Thump

    Big Thump

    Jun 29, 2005
    North of 49
    I slap and do some tap as well, it just seems that some newer amp & speaker combinations,without a tweet seem to be able to reproduce those freqs. without getting to shrill and spitty , especially if you factor active electronics on your axe into the equation just my opinion. cheerio
  6. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    I've already posted my comments on this issue in three other threads on the same exact topic. Consider my responses there to be the same here. :rolleyes:
  7. Basshole

    Basshole Banned

    Jan 28, 2005
    I like Hartke XLs, because they have a nice high end response, without the need for tweeters, which I agree, suck.
  8. andruca


    Mar 31, 2004
    Madrid (Spain)
    I tried a 410TVX and the problem is in the crossover section, not the tweeter itself. I find the "around 3 or 4 KHz" standard cutting point to be in fact the "harshing point". Once you use a hi-pass filter that's around 6-7KHz, many of these tweeters that we think suck a$$ don't such anymore. Brillance, not sibillance.

  9. Doug Parent

    Doug Parent

    May 31, 2004
    San Diego, Ca.
    Dealer Nordstrand Pickups.
    Exactly. Don't blame the messenger. Find the objectionable frequencies instead, reduce those, and see if that provides something new and useful. It's all a matter of taste. I find that turning a tweeter down to 20% gives a more natural upper extension of the speaker its working with. Some tweeters, or horns, say in the Bergantino line, have such smooth and even response, that the sound of the upper frequencies is very natural.

    I understand your discontent with the sound of the tweet in your cabinet.
    There may be better choices availiable. Don't shoot the whole herd out of contempt for one lame nag.

  10. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    Fremont, Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    IME, Peavey tweeters leave a lot to be desired (but also IMHO, so do Eden and SWR). On my Peavey and Eden cabs, I would keep the tweeter fairly attenuated, as they seemed to add more hiss than useable tone. However, once I started using cabs with excellent tweeters (Epifani, Bergantino, Accugroove, ACME, EA, Hevos), I realized that they really do have something musical to add. The difference in usefulness of the tweeters in the two groups mentioned above a huge, IME. So, if all I had to work with were the first group, I'd probably say stick with tweeterless cabs. But, if you like to do some slap, or want to add some high end zing or airyness, then tweeters from the second group of manufacturers are highly useful.

    Now, with that said, I have found two current cab options to offer an interesting middle ground. The first is the EA Wizzy, which is tweeterless, but uses a whizzer cone surrounding the woofer's dust cap to help reproduce and disperse higher frequencies. The Wizzy will not give you the high end zing or sparkle of a tweeter, but I find that it gives all the high end information and clarity that I could want, and it does it without getting harsh or shrill. Plus, being a round whizzer cone, it tends to disperse in a broad pattern, as opposed to some tweeters which I find to be rather directional. The other "middle ground" option is the Bergantino NV215. It uses a 6" midrange driver, and the cab is pretty much flat from 37 Hz to 7 kHz. There is a lot of musical "high frequency" information in that midrange's operating range, but you don't get the clicky/clanky high end, as the response rolls off very quickly beyond 7 kHz. For the record, this means that you also don't get some of the airyness and high end sparkle and shimmer of a high quality tweeter, but I find that the NV215 has all the high end clarity that I could want (and it has more high end clarity and crispness than the Wizzy, though two Wizzy's are close).

    Hope this helps, Tom.
  11. brother bean

    brother bean

    May 23, 2003
    i had this same delima a few months ago. i found that since most of the cab companies are using attenuators on there tweeters, this shouldn't be an issue. you can just dial in the amount of tweeter you need. cause i would much rather have the tweeter there just incase i need it, than wish i had purchased a different cab. even though you may not be slapping and popping today doesn't mean your style wont change tomorrow.
  12. Robear22

    Robear22 Supporting Member

    Sep 28, 2004
    Beach Park, Ill
    I conducted this very test yesterday on my backup/practice Behringer rig(BX3000T and BA115). I know definetely not high end but it gets the job done at low cost.

    I compared the sounds I could get from this setup with the tweeter on and off. With the tweet off you get the fundamental solid bottom that a 15 gives you. No string noise and no brightness so to speak. Any slap and tapping though lacks the clarity and brightness required for those styles.I can see where people that play certain types of music would love it. All they need is the bottom and that is it. I turn the tweeter on which is the way I play it and notice the difference in the highs that come through.

    Tweeters are a matter of preference and style of play. I am to the point that I would rather have a tweeter than none at all. For the styles I play I need it. I adjust the highs on my preamp and usually play with the attenuator if the cab has one to taste. I can't afford the high end yet but I believe that this problem does not exist with the boutique cab makers. Just use what you got to keep the groove solid. :)
  13. el_Kabong


    Jul 11, 2005
    I think there's more to a tweeter than just how much you dial in via the attenuator. Tweeters do have a sound, some cheap ones have a harsh scratchy sound that is always present. If you can hear the tweeter you can hear it's tone! I also have a suspicion that maybe it's not the best thing for bass guitar if the tweeter frequency response extends too high, up to the full 20khz. I'm not convinced that there's a lot up there that you want to hear other than amp/pedal hiss/noise. I like the tweeter on the epifani 410UL and I notice that it's spec is to 16khz, tho I don't know if that's -3db or -10db I must admit. I stuck one of the hartke 5in aluminium 'tweeters' in an ampeg 410hlf once and it was a marked improvement. No hiss (unlike the original!) and good highs when up full on the attenuator. I think those drivers run out of puff at around 12khz. I see on this forum that people experiment with preamps, pickups and pedals all the time. It's not that hard to try a different tweeter and I'm sure there are folks here with the experience to make recommendations on alternatives.
  14. Fretless5verfan


    Jan 17, 2002
    Slight hijack since the comparison was made:

    Tom, do you think the overall sound of two wizzy's is close to that of the NV215?

    Back on topic:

    I have a peavey TNT and the tweeter is just there to piss me off. I'm sure of it. I'm not a huge high-end freq lover, so the loss of the tweeter won't keep me away at night...though that damn TNT tweeter does :mad:
  15. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    Fremont, Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Not really. My point was that the NV215 compared to one Wizzy has seems to have more high frequency extension and clarity (despite the Wizzy being rated to 12 kHz and the NV215 being rated to 7 kHz), but with two Wizzy's stacked on top of each other, the overall perceived high end is more similar. But the NV215 has far deeper lows than even two Wizzy's (which I feel have excellent low end; it's just that the NV215 is downright subterranean, yet still tight and fast), and the Wizzy's have more punch and midrange presence. I'd say that the sound of two Wizzy's is closer to the sound of an NV610 than to the sound of the NV215. But you do have me thinking that maybe a dedicated A/B between two Wizzy's and my NV215 is in order! :p

  16. Fretless5verfan


    Jan 17, 2002

    Then my job here is done :cool:
  17. lowphatbass

    lowphatbass ****

    Feb 25, 2005
    west coast
    First of all let me say that I am firmly against ALL crappy sounding tweeters, high frequency drivers and everything in between that sound crappy....O.K......I feel better.
    I play a wide variety of music...Funk, Blues, Jazz, R&B, "Urban" Gospel, and any and everything in between. Let me say that a tweeter isn't an "option", you either NEED it or you DON'T.....period...no debating needed.
    For the Gospel stuff I do I HAVE to have it!! You are not cutting through without it, the defined "sparkle" on top of your notes NEEDS to be there!! For Blues I find it better without, I'm not stepping on any Guitarist's(the primary blues instrument by default)toes.
    You see, for me a tweeter is not optional, it's either needed or hated. I will also add that I am a big fan of Bag End's COAXIAL drivers instead of conventional tweeters. They are smoother and WAY more musical, to my ears anyway.
  18. I love the tweeter on my Aguilar GS112. It's totally adjustable so you can turn it off or set the volume anywhere you want. I like to keep is somewhere bewteen 1/3 and 1/2 for the sound I like. Still, it's nice to have the flexability, and I'd rather have one and turn it off than need one and not have it.
  19. Lync

    Lync Supporting Member

    Apr 13, 2004
    I've come to the conclusion that it is cab-dependent.

    Some cabs with tweeters sound good with 'em off, while other cabs really need a bit of tweeter to sound right.

    Then there are some cabs without tweeters that sound great and then some that sound like mud.
  20. jake_tim


    Jun 28, 2005
    North Carolina
    well, i turn my tweeter off. i dont liek the hissing sound it makes... wait i hope that hissing sound is normal.