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Tweeter options for 2x15 cabinet?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Magneto, Mar 28, 2005.

  1. I've been testing my rebuilt bass cabinet with 2 Eminence Kappa Pro LF-2s in it. For the most part, it sounds even better than I had hoped for, but like I suspected at the start, it's missing high end. The finer high end.

    I am considering adding a tweeter. I have allowed enough extra room in the cabinet for mounting one if needed, without changing the cab volume too much.I do not have the room for installing any other type of speaker, even something small like an Eminence Alpha 6".
    I can get a good deal on the Foster horn from Avatar, and a complete panel jack with the same crossover that Avatar uses in their cabs. They use a simple mylar capacitor. I was told by Dave at Avatar that the crossover and Foster wouldn't change the load on my cab. I have the 2-15s wired parallel at 4 ohms. I need to keep it that way.
    I've read about improvements that some have made to their Avatar cabs by using better crossovers. I don't want to buy and install something without exploring more possibilities. Might as well do that now. Is there an upgraded capacitor that I could swap out that would give me better performance from that Foster horn?
    I do realize that I'll be leaving a bit of a hole in my frequency response by simply adding the tweeter alone, but to be honest, the cab sounds pretty good as-is, and just getting some of the finer highs would be a big help. I can always change things later when I rebuild the drivers into separate enclosures.

    I would appreciate your ideas and opinions. I'm a newbie when it comes to crossovers. Thanks..

  2. The tweeter for my 2x15 cab is a 2x10 cab. ;)
  3. Neither of those cabs have a dedicated tweeter? What load are you putting on your amp with both of those cabinets? How many watts do you have to drive them? What make and model are those extra-large tweeters? What's the frequency response on them? What's the actual useable upper range?


  4. Neither of those cabs have a dedicated tweeter?

    They both have a dedicated tweeter, but in the case of the 2x15 it doesn't matter because the cab doesn't receive anything above 200hz anyway. The tweeter in the 2x10 cab is turned off. I get more than enough treble without that squawky little thing.

    What load are you putting on your amp with both of those cabinets?

    4ohms per side.

    How many watts do you have to drive them?

    900 each.

    What make and model are those extra-large tweeters?

    Eden D210T

    What's the frequency response on them?

    62Hz - 14KHz

    What's the actual useable upper range?


  5. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    A tweeter is not the best way to go; too bad you didn't leave enough room for an Alpha 6. Your Kappas have an on axis response good to only 1.5kHz, and even that's only of benefit for whoever is hearing the box on axis. Off-axis response from any 15 plunges above 800Hz at best, so ideally you'd want to cross it over there to an eight or six.

    The tweeter you're considering is OK, but the 1st order filter that comes with it offers virtually no protection and cuts off response far too high. Search the threads on Avatar tweeters for a 4th order crossover that will allow you to use that tweeter down to 2.5kHz or less and give proper protection. That's still an octave and a half higher than ideal but without room for a six in there is your only option.
  6. I picked up (4) Alpha 6 from an eBay firesale at $18 each.

    The plan is a vertical 4x6 array as a High bi-amp cab to work with a stack of Omega Pro 12. I figure these will work very nicely in a non-horn loaded environment. The frequency response is high enough for electric bass, and the vertical array should produce very usable dispersion.

    Building season opens 4/1/05, weather permitting. I have a huge backlog of racks, cabs, and Tubas waiting for building.
  7. Mudbass: Thanks for the info. Very nice rig, indeed!

    BillFitzMaurice: Once again, I appreciate you taking the time to stop and help. I have been collecting as many tweeter/crossover clips from the forum, reading through them.
    I guess what I was trying to find out was if there was some sort of higher-quality cap I could swap out with the one that Avatar uses. I was probably gonna get the complete pre-wired panel from them (cap included), and wire it in. I need a better panel anyway, and this one comes with Speakon, L-pad, etc.. Good price on it. Right on Dave...
    I wanted to check into something economical, because I'm on a limited budget right now, and I am not up to speed on building my own crossover.

    bgavin: Your new project sounds very interesting. I hope you'll keep us posted on this..

    Well.. off to band practice.. I'll check back in tonight..

  8. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    There is no such thing as a 'better cap' from the standpoint of protection. No matter what the quality a single cap will always be a 1st order filter. You want a 4th order filter, which is two caps and two inductors. A third order filter is not as good but still infinetely better than a 1st order; you can get a pre-wired input/crossover assembly with 3rd order HP filters at Parts Express. You've got some nice drivers there; don't botch the job now with a cheesy crossover.
  9. Magneto,
    I just responded to you via email and private message.
  10. billfitzmaurice: Thanks for clearing that up. I guess I'm gonna have to do crossover-101 research. I would surely like to run that Foster horn at lower freqs and have it better protected and sounding better. No sense in adding it at all if I'm not gonna do it right.
    If you happen back across this thread, would you think I would be doing ok if I built my smaller cabs with one 15, one Alpha 6, and a crossover? I wouldn't need a tweeter with the Alpha's upper freq response? I wouldn't think so.

    LovethatBass: I got your PM and replied to it. Thanks for that info and the help. I might be getting back to you about that 4th-order x-over...

    Thanks everyone..

  11. chris4001asat


    Dec 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    Warehouse Manager : Reverend Guitars
  12. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    A single 15 and an Alpha 6 crossed over at 800 to 1200 Hz is a good match. I think that 5kHz is adequate on the top end. I run to 25kHz myself but pull the top EQ down anyway. The main advantage to going all the way up is being able to hear the same thing from your rig that the audience does in the PA, so when I pull down my sliders on my amp above 8kHz to kill what I don't need in back of me it also kills what I don't want coming out of the PA either.
  13. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Bgavin says the same thing but I'm unsure about this. I tested this by cutting everything above 5K from my rig 4x10 + horn and suddenly my stingray didn't sound like a stingray any more, especially while slapping. It all boils down to personal preference I guess, but going tweeterless is certainly worth a try. Adding a tweet later isn't difficult.
  14. Please read your Private message before you do anything.
  15. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Perhaps, but if your rig has a response hole above where the woofer stops and below where the horn kicks in then the only HF you have may be from 5kHz and up. Also, a 5kHz slider may have a marked effect even two full octaves below the ceneter frequency, and that means all the way down to 1.25kHz. This is especially the case if the EQ has ten bands or less. I boost my response at 5kHz, kill it above that, as mostly what remains up there is amp noise. I don't recommend going tweeterless per se, I use them, but mostly because my woofer works just fine to 3kHz, so I don't need a mid-driver to fill in below that, and tweeters give me response to no less than 5kHz.
  16. adam on bass

    adam on bass Supporting Member

    Feb 4, 2002
    New Braunfels, Texas
    Endorsing Artist: Spector, GK, EMG and D'Addario
    Exactly. I have an Eden 215XLT with the tweeter and I turn it just about off and it sound freakin awesome. On smaller gigs I use it with out my 210XLT and it cuts great.
  17. Got your new PM messages. Sent you a reply.. Thank you.

    This is a very interesting discussion. Thanks for the info on the questions I asked, billfitzmaurice.
    This might sound funny, but I practice at home with 2 stereo speakers (12", 3-way) at low volumes. I bring home my amp and eq, and I'm astonished at how far I have to drop my highs on these. Don't get me wrong.. I'm liking my sound with the big cab, but am missing the bright, thin highs. I'm sure there are 15s that have a better upper-end response, but the Kappa Pro LFs are so smooth..
    Although not a perfect arrangement, I do believe the tweeter with the right crossover setup would really enhance my sound until I can build my new cabs in the future..