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Two 112´s - enough?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by CoolHat, Feb 5, 2004.


  1. Hi!

    I have been a proud owner of a EBS NEO-112 cab for about a week now. Amazing piece of gear, great sound in a featherweight package. But while I am impressed by its loudness, I would still like to have another cab for bigger gigs. At the same time I want to keep my rig as portable as possible. I´m playing through an EBS-1 pre and a Crown XLS402 power amp (2x250W at 8 ohms)

    Another NEO-112 would of course be a light solution - heck, two NEOs would weigh less combined than most 15´s!, but would it make significant difference in volume and low end? Correct me if I´m wrong, but wouldn´t adding another cab (and another 250W of amplification) increase the volume by just 3db? Would I be better of with a 15", perhaps a 4 ohm one?

    I know there are people here that use two 112´s. I would like to hear your experiences, regardless of brand. Do they push enough air? How big/loud gigs have you been able to cover with them? And yeah, I´ve done quite a bit of searching, but haven´t found anything that would specifically answer my question.
     
  2. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    I've used two 1-12 Nahas cabs with excellent results.
     
  3. pjleo

    pjleo

    May 27, 2003
    del valley
    i use an avatar 112 cab [newer model ]
    and avatar older 112 cab on other side of stage
    ,with demeter/stewart 1.6
    [at 8 ohms 390 watts each], in large rooms, sounds full on stage with plenty of headroom , and band members tell me bass volume is full when checking the room ....
     
  4. inazone

    inazone

    Apr 20, 2003
    Colorado
    I played out over a 60 times with two bergantino 112s in a classic rock band. A little while back I used the two 112s against two marshall 100 watt half stacks ( I could of used with a little more speaker area ) in a metal band but it did the job nicely. When you put two 112s together you get more than get louder. You get better bottom end and more tone as well. Havent heard the EBS 112s, I bet there nice.
     
  5. jusplayinmybass

    jusplayinmybass

    Apr 17, 2003
    Conyers, Ga
    Keith McMillan Instruments, SIT Strings, Accugroove Cabinets
    I went and saw Jraj a couple weeks ago. He uses 2 Aguilar 1x12 cabs. I heard him better than anyone on stage, and he wasn't goin through the PA. Got me rethinking what I'm going to do amp wise. I'll probably get 2 Tri 112's (Accugroove) and run them with my QSC 2402. That should cover just about everything I'm doing at the moment. I can get the El Whappo and Whappo Grande later, need more money. B Easy

    Myron Bennell Carroll
     
  6. Hey, thanks a bunch! Great to hear that a pair 112´s can do the job, because I really like the idea of getting another NEO: extra cab would be useful even between gigs. I´m thinking about buying a cheap head (perhaps that 300W Behringer everybody talks about) so I could have two rigs: one at home and the other one at our practice place.
     
  7. Suburban

    Suburban

    Jan 15, 2001
    lower mid Sweden
    EBS recommends a set of a NEO110+NEO112. Just a hint...I think 2xNEO112 would do the trick, as long as you stay above the lowE (-3db@50Hz)
     
  8. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    You actually get a good deal more tha 3db.

    Double speaker surface area= +3
    Double power output= +3
    (If you stack speakers or place them side by side)
    Coupling effects of sound waves from similar drivers= +3

    Im probably missing something there, but thats gonna be about 9db increase and a 10 db increase is a doubling of volume. Remember that none of those numbers are exactly right so you could be a little bit louder or quieter than these numbers project.

    Oh, and I would definetly go with much a more powerful amp than that.

    Peace
    Nick
     
  9. Yeah, I will try that combination too. I thought that the NEO-110 was very impressive cab too. Maybe a bit more neutral sounding whereas 112 was slightly warmer.

    I´m not looking for huge low end, I feel that excessive bass just muddies everything if the venue isn´t acoustically good - and very few places are. I´m aiming for tight and solid sound that cuts through without farting or harshness, so I think these Svenssons will serve me fine.

    And Nick, thanks for the numbers, very interesting. Does anyone know any links with more info about this subject?
     
  10. Mike

    Mike

    Sep 7, 2000
    Cali
    I've used an EBS 2x12 for every gig I've played over the last two years from bars to small auditoriums and have never had a problem with stage volume. I always cut clearly through the mix.
     
  11. Sufenta

    Sufenta Trudging The Happy Road of Destiny

    Mar 14, 2002
    The Signpost Up Ahead.
    Two 12's will be plenty loud as long as they are powered correctly.
     
  12. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Definitely try the 1x10/1x12 combo in addition to the two 1x12's, and see which you prefer. Sonically, I generally prefer a 1x10/1x12 setup, but two 1x12's seem to move a good bit more air (even more of a difference than you might expect). My solution: get a 1x10 and two 1x12's (Epifani's, in my case), then you have the flexibility of either setup, or all three cabs (if you amp can handle the load).

    Another factor may be your amp. IMHO, 2x250 is just barely enough juice for medium-large venues. I have also found that for projecting sound, my Epifani T-112's really do much better with gobs of headroom. Tonally, they sound great with my little Walkabout, but in a larger room, they turn to mud if I don't send enough juice their way.

    Tom.
     
  13. As usual Mr. TomBowlus is right on the mark. I agree that in most cases you need some additional power for most modern 1x12 cabs not all of course. I'm also sure some other TB'rs will disagree with that, but I have found the extra headroom is definatley a key factor for me. Currently I'm using Bergantino HT/EX112 combination with either a Walter Woods Ultra (1200w @ 4ohms) or my other "bigger rig" consisting of a Demeter VTBP201S and QSC-PLX 2402 (bridged 2400w @ 4ohms). The Bergs like the extra juice a lot, but you do have to be careful and know your particular signal chain. :hyper:
     
  14. Hmm... I know extra power never hurts, but I´m not sure if I need it so much. Before I got the Crown, I used one of our bands PA amps (2x900W, 8 ohms) to drive the cabs on few rehearsals. Quite frankly, I don´t hear any difference with my Crown. I´m not really cranking the system though.

    What kind of wattage you would suggest as a safe minimum (please, no overkill)? As I said, I want to keep things portable; having a 30 kg amp would kinda defeat the purpose of having 11 kg cabs... I know that the QSC PLX-series are very popular among TB´ers, but they are a bit pricey over here.

    Mind you, there could also be some cultural differences in effect here: you Americans would probably consider my local large venues to be just barely medium-sized; I really don´t know any Finnish bassists that would have 1 kW rigs...
     
  15. rok51

    rok51

    Sep 2, 2002
    Crawfordville, FL
    I use a pair of the Aggie 112s with a PLX 1602. They turned out to be more than I expected. Play in a blues/rock outfit and they have taken the place of my 410/115 combination. About the same, volume wise. I like the warmth much better. One of the guitarists (who loves to feel the bass :)) asked me to put my second pair of GS112s on his side of the stage. I have done so-giving me four GS112s on stage. Honestly, it's overkill-two would be fine. But after humping big, heavy cabs for 30 years...grabbin' an extra pair of the GS112s is a piece o' cake!

    Kim
     
  16. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    For more specific info with these numbers just look around TB!

    As far as power requirements Id say maybe 300- 500 Watts per side at 4 ohms would be nice so that you would have extra headroom, especially important if you play a 5 string bass or play slap/pop styles.

    Aside from the QSC PLX amps you will find a few other manufacturers who make great lighweight power amps.

    The Stewart World 1.2 is one amp that comes to mind. Its only one rack space and 11 lbs (5 kg? ) which is a very nice bonus.

    If anyone finds anything that needs correction feel free to correct away. Id hate to give false info.

    Peace
    Nick
     
  17. petch

    petch Supporting Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    Medina, Ohio
    I use the Berg HT/EX-112 stack powered by an Eden WT-550. (500w @ 4ohms). Two cabs make a big difference in the BOTTOM. I have gigged this setup without a p.a. a couple of times- once was outdoors- with excellent results; the whole band was happy with the bass sound. I do suspect that I am playing in a less loud band than the high power afficionados. I would say that 500 watts is a good place to start- the quality 12" cabs will take a bunch more and less than that is not doing them justice. I have no personal experience with your EBS cabs but they look great and probably sound the same. I would add another twelve, not a fifteen, so that dual twelve inch synergy is realized and your back is happy! :D
     
  18. Well actually my Crown delivers 400 watts per side at 4 ohms, so...

    That Stewart sounds sweet, but I guess they are pretty expensive. And they are probably not sold over here, at least I have never herd of them.

    Of course, this is getting academic: I barely have money to get the extra cab, so a possible amp upgrade is not an issue right now. But thanks anyway! I´ll be updating you about my quest for the ultimate rig whether you like it or not :D

    Now if I could only get a digital camera and send some pics... did I mention I have a new bass too? ;)
     
  19. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    DOH!!

    I should have figured that when run at 4 ohms the power output would be about that much.

    Peace
    Nick
     
  20. I'm using a pair of Avatar CB112s and they get plenty loud for the blues we do.Really,I use 1 cab at rehearsal and it can get too loud.Our lead player uses a 4-10 Hot Rod Deville Fender and he swears his volume at practice is the same as gigs.I've had an Aguilar 112 also and it's the same thing, they are really suprising volume wise.I don't think I'd use just one 112 at a gig but two works pretty well.