Two-way cabs with midrange instead of horn - general availability

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Michael Vee, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. There is a lot of talk on TB so far this year about the new two-way cab design: one 12" or 15", coupled with a midrange driver crossed over at 500 Hz or so, in lieu of a horn/tweeter.

    What current production cabs can players get their hands on right now in the USA that have this configuration? I can't think of any that are not custom, such as LDS or Dr.Bass. There is the Berg NV215, but it's a 2x15. There are the Barefaced Bass Big One cabs, but they aren't available in the States.

    It probably is unlikely that any major manufacturer would move into these two-ways because it's not a sales-tested design yet. Greenboy has been developing the fEarful cab design, but no one is actually building these for resale.
  2. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Perhaps not by bass cab manufacturers, but two-way speakers that don't have a gap between the response of the two drivers wide enough to put the national debt through have been around since about 1925. :rollno:
  3. True, however, I'm referring to the low/mid bass guitar cabinet design that is now being discussed here on TB, not home stereo and other types of cabinets. That type of bass cabinet has never sold enough in previous incarnations - such as the Electro-Voice two-way cab - to merit interest from the big cabinet builders.
  4. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    That's because well engineered cabs like those EVs are at the wrong end of the price spectrum. The 'big guys' build to target the tastes of the buyer who primarily considers price and looks, and that takes a high level of engineering off the table.
  5. greenboy


    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    I put the fEarful™ plans out for DIYers because what was out there when I decided to get a new cab with flatter extended response and high SPL capabilities didn't exist. I figured private individuals could benefit from modern FREE plans for something beyond the mundane, ones that were also relatively simple to build.

    And by the way - I'm not talking COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISES. I don't want to build for others, and I don't want to see some company glomming on without my involvement. I suggest that the unmotivated might find a local fine cabinetry specialist or finish carpenter (considering the economic outlook they would appreciate the work!) and go with that. For others, this should be fun and actually deliver something that won't need to be shifted later.

    As I was saying... Bass cabs that came close were a bit too small to totally use the better woofer potential that was available, and tuned too high and none had room for a good small format midrange cone and had that stupid squat/wide profile that makes it tough to use just one on small stages and actually hear the midrange.

    Also I had contacted Dr Bass but they had no interest in a 2-way or 3-way at that time (amazing how later they were, but I'm not too impressed by some of the design and component choices). But just as I was about to give up on buying and began motivating myself to build what I had on paper, I saw that Carvin had just released a club PA cab, the LS1503. So I bought it to tide me over; it looked like it was a close relative to my concept. I gigged with it and used it as a test bed. It turned out to be a remarkable cab, though a little too small to fully allow the best woofers to reach low smoothly.
  6. greenboy


    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Here's the new almost-finished design for the 12/6 fEarful, which is phase-aligned and very similar in all respects to the 15/6 version, based around the brand new Eminence 3012LF Kappalite. Low tuners especially should check into this. I just need to overlay the dimensions/measurements and do a detail sheet on how the midrange chamber and bracing go together.

  7. Green, thanks for posting here, even though it looks like the same posts as in the main fEarful thread.

    However, my question still remains - I'm wondering if any cab builders are currently building a 1x12+mid or 1x15+mid cabinet, no horns, that is available to the USA market.
  8. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Actually mine are now available to the USA market, I really need to update all of my site to reflect that. You can thank plummeting pound sterling for making exports viable once again - shame most of our manufacturing industry has died in the meantime... They won't be the crazy bargain they are here but they'll still be competitively priced once shipping etc is added. If there is significant interest in the future it could be possible to sort out some kind of stateside distribution.

  9. bongomania

    bongomania Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    You could do as some other companies do and contract with a stateside "agent/builder" to manufacture your products to your specifications "over here". The down side is managing that business relationship effectively, but the up side is a greatly increased market for your goods.

    MV, I don't know of any off-the shelf units, but I suppose there must be some relatively well-designed 3-way cabs where one could open it up and disable the high split of the x-over and leave the horn unconnected.
  10. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I think that would be a great thing to do but time consuming to get set up. Definitely an option for the future.

  11. greenboy


    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Actually I posted the explanation here first, then edited it slightly and placed it there. But thanks for reading.
  12. I'd like to see some measurements.

    A measurement compared against an existing commercial cab is even better. The most telling measurement is off-axis, 45 degrees.
  13. Interceptor


    Mar 29, 2005
    Madison, WI
    There are some three way designs (albeit with their own set of problems) that would be worth a try to get a taste of what GB's up to.

    The SWR Triad and the EBS 611. Neither of those boxes can soak up the juice like a Eminence 3015 LF, but they are great candidates for proof of concept of LF + midrange for bass applications.

    I've got a EBS 611, and it taught me the value of better off-axis performance.
  14. MPU


    Sep 21, 2004
    Valkeala Finland
    Not maybe commercial makers but on Fitzmaurice site there are many US builders that will be happy to make you either Omni12 or Omni15 without tweeters. 12" or 15" woofer with 8" mid. I have Omni15 and it sounds just great.
    Hamish MacCleod likes this.
  15. Bump for any new info.
  16. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member In Memoriam

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    Low Down Sound does nice stuff:

  17. Jim C

    Jim C I believe in the trilogy; Fender, Stingray, + G&L Supporting Member

    Nov 29, 2008
    Bethesda, MD
    It amazes me that none of the major bass amp makers (Ampeg, Fender, GK, Genz Benz, etc.) have bothered with this mid range design. Such idiots in either marketing or R&D.
    Thought that when Fender came out with the Bassman 300 or Orange with their quality bass products that someone might actualy try something other than bolting 10's or15' in a box with some piezo horn.
    Shame on Trace, Aguilar, and other high end guys for getting lazy as well.
    Basicaly, there has been no new cabinet designs since 1969 from the big names.

    So glad that I have a 1x15 EV and 2x15 EV with VMR; they were not that popular 25 years ago (paid approx $125 for the 1x15 and something like $150 for the 2x15). If the mid range dies in either one I'm screwed.

    Am assuming the Berg 322 has some sort of crossover between the 12 and 10's; it too sounds great even though not a true mid range deal (IMO)

    Not really looking for bass speakers unless something new comes out although building a fEARful sounds like fun

    Pretty great to have Bill F and Greenboy here as they seem to be the only ones designing with original ideas (OK so it's old physics, but the drawings and applications are new for us)
  18. yodedude2

    yodedude2 Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2005
    san antonio, texas
  19. babebambi


    Jan 7, 2008
    not nearly loud enough except for the smallest gig.
    only good for studio or if you mic your cab and have stage monitor.
    for comparison, it is lower in SPL than a single GS112
  20. pfschim

    pfschim Just a Skeleton with a Jazz bass

    Apr 26, 2006
    SF Bay Area
    I know these are 3-way designs, but Accugroove makes some killer cabs with dedicated, internally enclosed mid drivers, like the Tri115 and the Tri112. I am not sure where they are crossed over, and they do have soft dome tweeters too. Mark does not offer attenuators for the tweets or mid driver on his cabs, but they are very sweetly tuned just the same.

    I personally do not like tweeters or horns in my cabs, and will turn them waaay down when I end up with them. I recently picked up a Tri115 and find it a very well voiced cab.

    FWIW, I was also very interested in the fEARful 15/6 (non-horn version) too. But, I missed out on the pre-made cut kits that were available briefly here on TB and I am just not very handy with wood construction projects.
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

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