Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Flanders, Sep 22, 2003.

  1. Flanders


    Oct 30, 2002
    Reno, NV
    Hi All
    I am currently playing with a group that has two guitarists. Both are playing Marshall amps at about 150 watts apiece. Metal/heavy rock sort of thing. I am running SWR350 and a 4x10 cab, and I am always buried in the wall of sound these guys put out. What kind of power would I need to cut through a little more clearly? Any suggestions or info would be appreciated.

  2. Obsolex

    Obsolex Guest

    Nov 17, 2002
    Dude, tell them to turn it to not more than 100 watts each and slap them ;) ;) -
  3. Flanders


    Oct 30, 2002
    Reno, NV
    "But then I can't hear what I'm playing!!! Whine Piss Moan Boo Fing Hoo" Thanks for the suggestion though. I should slap them just for being guitarists!
  4. Obsolex

    Obsolex Guest

    Nov 17, 2002
    Hell yeah you should... That's rediculous though, 2 guitarists with 150 watts each. They probably have the bass all the way up to. Why do they even need a bassist??
  5. Flanders


    Oct 30, 2002
    Reno, NV
    Not only do they have the bass "up to 11" but they are also tuned to drop C tuning. I need MORE POWER, Mr Scott!
  6. Nick Gann

    Nick Gann Talkbass' Tubist in Residence

    Mar 24, 2002
    Silver Spring, MD
    I don't know... In a band with 2 guitarists tuned to C with 150 watts each, I don't think the bass is meant to be heard.
  7. Obsolex

    Obsolex Guest

    Nov 17, 2002
    Yeah, detuning your bass will usually decrease how loud it is in the amp. Break their amps!! jk lol
  8. Nick Gann

    Nick Gann Talkbass' Tubist in Residence

    Mar 24, 2002
    Silver Spring, MD
    No, you missed my point, I was just stereotyping the type of music. You know, drop C, 300 guitar watts with bass boosted on the amps, *cough* nu metal *cough*

    *sigh* nevermind
  9. Stu L.

    Stu L. Supporting Member

    Nov 27, 2001
    Corsicana, Texas
    Since no one else has even tried to answer the question, I'll try.

    IMO, you need a 2nd cab. Another 4x, a 15" whatever, just something to drop the ohms and move some air.
  10. jazzcatb17


    Dec 27, 2002
    Louisville, Ky
    If you even want to think of competing, and I really dont see areason why, Your gonna need more power, and more speakers. Try adding a QSC light power amp at about 2400 watts, then throw in two megoliath's( keeping with the SWR thing). Focus your EQ on the mids,(those are what cut through) and crank that baby all the way. If anyonbe has any hearing left at that point, your guitarist, and probaly most of your neighborhood, will be asking you to turn down. But with the rig you got now, you might as well be using headphones to keep up.;)
  11. Obsolex

    Obsolex Guest

    Nov 17, 2002
    Get one more cab, and a really loud head or a power+pre combo, and drown all your whole band ;) ;) -
  12. NeedMoreBass

    NeedMoreBass unregistered

    Feb 14, 2003
    I second this!! :D
  13. Flanders


    Oct 30, 2002
    Reno, NV
    Well, thanks I think... I'm going to try a second cab for now.

    Whoever said nu metal needs to meet me at the bike racks after school!

  14. Hrothgar

    Hrothgar Guest

    Sep 22, 2003
    I play in two metal bands, a 3 piece and a 5 piece with two loud guitarists a keyboardist and an overzealous drummer. Personally, I have more than enough power with my Acme LowB4 with a Stewart World 1.2 running through it. The volume usually stays around 9 o' clock and everyone can hear it (feel it) fine. They ask ME to turn down. A single 4x10 should be quite sufficient given a large enough power amp. Try about 900 watts or so through yours, I use 1200 only b/c I'm running through the infamous inefficient acme.
  15. Nick Gann

    Nick Gann Talkbass' Tubist in Residence

    Mar 24, 2002
    Silver Spring, MD
    Pfftt.... my point exactly. If you were really offended by my nu metal comment, you'd meet me at the flag pole. Thats where the real fights are.


  16. aladdin


    Mar 7, 2003
    Chiba, Japan

    Taking a look at the SWR spec sheet, your 350x "only" puts out 240 watts at 8 ohms. I am not sure which cabinet you are using. The Goliath III is available in 8 and 4 ohm whereas the Workingman's 4x10 is available only in 8.

    If you have one 8 ohm speaker, you are pushing 240 watts against your guitarist's 300 or so..

    The 350x will do:

    240 watts @ 8
    350 watts @ 4
    450 watts @ 2 ohms

    My suggestion would be first another 8 ohm 4x10. This will increase your power by 110 watts plus give you 400 cubic inches more radiating area for your bass sound. It will also give you a 6 dB increase because of a phenomenon known as "cabinet gain." This is simply having another cabinet of the same type close to the one you are using. You will sound twice as loud.

    If this is still not enough, you can add a 4 ohm 1x15 or a triad. This drops you to 2 ohms and the full 450 watts. It will also fill in the bass that the 4x10s don't particularly do well. Make sure the little 350x has enough room to breathe when running 2 ohms.

    All said and done,IMHO I think your band may simply be too loud. You can always DI to the house.

  17. Stu L.

    Stu L. Supporting Member

    Nov 27, 2001
    Corsicana, Texas
    OR, if the first 4x10 is 8 ohm, he could essentially add 3 more, go to 2 ohms, and have alot of fun.

    Really, I think the amp probably has enough power, it just needs the speakers to move it.
  18. Mcrelly


    Jun 16, 2003
    Minnesota, USA
    I second the "another cab" comment probably a 410. and crank you mids to the most annoying frequency and leave the bass on zero.

    and for God's sake put in some ear plugs!!! thats crazy if you don't.
  19. 12notes


    Jul 15, 2003
    Just get a PIPE ORGAN!

    You'll go down to sub-20 Hz range (something like 18 or 19 Hz. IIRC), where no string instrument that I can think of can reach.
  20. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Start at a kilowatt and go up. Using the universal rule of thumb for guitar/bass power ratios of 1:10, you need at least 3,000 watts and matching cabs to represent properly. So I'd say this is your rig:

    Eden WP-100 Navigator preamp
    QSC PLX 3402 power amp
    (2) 4-ohm Eden D-410XLT
    (2) 4-ohm Eden D-410XST

    The 4-ohm speakers are so you can run the QSC at 2 ohms per side, affording you the full 3,400 watts available.

    Seriously, if those hosers play loud, you're going to need at least a WT-800 and two 4-ohm D-410XLTs to keep up, especially if you're not going through the PA. If you get the big rig up above, they'll KNOW you mean business.

    OK, guys, back me up here so he knows I'm not fooling around.