1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
     
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)

Use Streamliner as a preamp/EQ with Shuttle Max Power Section

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by johndough247, Mar 23, 2013.


  1. Replace SL112 cabs with ML112's

    2 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. Add ML112 to current rig of SL112's

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Use Streamliner as preamp/EQ into current ShuttleMAX Head

    3 vote(s)
    30.0%
  4. Other

    5 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. Has anyone ever used a ShuttleMax as strictly a power section with a Streamliner (I'm looking at the 600) as the preamp and EQ?

    I've been looking for a warmer, all tube amp-like thickness to the sound, but want to retain the 1200W capacity of my SM...the Shuttle Max 12.2 with 2 Aggie SL112's are nice but not as warm and thick down low as I'd like...I thought about changing the cabs to ML112's (or just adding an ML112 to the current rig, making it a 3x12), but that would prove more costly for me (I'm not US based) than adding the streamliner to the chain. Couple additional questions:

    1) Which road would in your opinion yield the thicker sound I crave: change the cabs, add an additional cab (ML112), or combine the Streamliner and Shuttlemax? If you vote for 'other', please give an alternative solution.

    2) How would I rig this exactly? I'm guessing to take a XLR to 1/4" cable and run from Streamliner DI out (post EQ, line level) into Master receive (power amp IN) on the ShuttleMax.

    3) Do the power sections of these amps significantly contribute to the overall tone and if so, are both power sections identical? I'm talking about the Streamliner's 600W Power amp compared to one amp from the SM 12.2 (also 600W).
     
  2. jumblemind

    jumblemind I also answer to Bryan Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2011
    Knoxville
    No DI, you would use the effects loop on both amps, connecting the Line Out from the Streamliner to the Line In on the ShuttleMax. That would effectively use the the preamp from the first one into the power amp of the second. Not sure if it would really be worth the trouble, though, as it's a lot of gear for not a great solution. I actually tried to do this with an Ampeg MicroVR into an LMTube for the same tone/power reasons, and it just didn't work out.

    Unless you already know you like the sound of the Streamliner, I would just sell the Aggies and try different cabs. Then add a pedal for your tube sound: an SFT, EBS ValveDrive, Vintage Microtubes, etc.
     
  3. musicman666

    musicman666

    Sep 11, 2011
    ca
    Why do you want 1200 watts with 2- 12'' cabs. I would think a Streamliner 600/900 would be just fine with those cabs. Sorry but I am not familiar with the ShuttleMax.
     
  4. But the FX out on the shuttle are pre EQ if I'm not mistaken and the EQ is a big part of the streamliner's tone (2 of the 3 tubes are specifically for the EQ). I think the DI route would be more effective, as the EQ can be included and setting the signal to line level would (I think) be more in line with what the power amp receives normally at that stage in the signal path.
     
  5. With some big gigs I do, they let me use the house's cabs to supplement my current rig. Just last weekend I did a concert where I used a SWR 4x10 with my two SL 112's all with the shuttleMax powering it ( the shuttleMax is two 600W power sections, both feeding from a mono source).

    EDIT: Also, I'm all about warm tone without grinding distortion (on most days anyways), so I'd rather more speakers and the amp to work less so I get a clean tone and big volume than push less speakers for volume and go into distortion territory.
     
  6. jumblemind

    jumblemind I also answer to Bryan Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2011
    Knoxville
    The whole point of FX loops is that they happen between the Preamp and Power sections. An effects loop before the preamp is your regular pedalboard plugged into the amp's input.
     
  7. jumblemind

    jumblemind I also answer to Bryan Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2011
    Knoxville
    If you're set on that kind of solution, why not get a rackmount tube preamp? Lots of those on the market for less money than a Streamliner.
     
  8. TheRealKong

    TheRealKong

    Mar 17, 2011
    No, reading the manual I found out that the FX-Out of the Streamliner is post EQ, directly before the master volume. Here is a quote of the manual of the Streamliner 900:

    "This loop is located right before the Master Volume control and is also intended as a Preamp Out / Power Amp In connection for possible “chaining” of amplifiers in a Master / Slave configuration."

    It's the same with the Shuttle Max, so You can use the Streamliner as preamp, the Shuttle Max for power amp.

    You can find the complete manual here:
    http://www.genzbenz.com/img/manuals/gb/Streamliner_900_manual.pdf
     
  9. Give examples of one that sounds as good as the SL (not snarky, I really would like an example)...also, I like that the SL 600 is small and light enough to fit in my gig bag.

    Ahhh you're right...I was thinking about the Tube and FET channel loops on the shuttlemax: those are definitely pre-EQ, the Master loop is post-EQ.
     
  10. mystic38

    mystic38

    Dec 4, 2012
    Mystic CT
    such as?... please suggest an all tube rack preamp for $700... as i certainly dont know one.

    IMO at its price, the Streamliner is worth it for the preamp alone..

    Remember this is not simply a almost tube preamp with one 12ax7 providing gain and and some distortion.. its a full tube preamp with six stages covering gain, EQ and buffering.

    I think the OP has a great idea.. and has a free spare power amp :)

     
  11. svtb15

    svtb15

    Mar 22, 2004
    Austin,TX - McKinney,TX - NY,NY, - Nashville,TN
    I play it all. Whatever works for the gig
    You can run out of the EFFECTS OUT of one amp into the EFFECTS RETURN on the other amp... Using the first amp as a preamp..
    You would also be able to use both amps power sections too ...The Preamp VOL on the first amp in line would control both amps..
    But I believe IIRC that you will need to control overall output VOL with the MASTER VOL on each amp...
     
  12. Tunaman

    Tunaman

    Dec 26, 2004
    Boston
    I've done what you said but reversed . Made my streamliner a shuttlemax... Cool stuff
     
  13. Yea that's what I was thinking, and I have a possible line to a used one so it's more like under $500.

    Yup. not to mention I have more tonal options cause I can run it one of 3 ways:

    Option 1:
    • Bass into SL input
    • Run SL effect out into SMax effect in
    • connect cabs to SMax

    In effect, making it a Streamliner 1200

    Option 2:
    • Bass into SL input
    • Take an XLR to 1/4" cable and run SL direct out (mic level, pre EQ) into the inst. input of SMax
    • Connect SL effect out into SMax TUBE CHANNEL effect in
    • Connect cabs to SMax

    Making the SMax tube channel a Streamliner channel that be switched/mixed with the FET SMax channel.

    Option 3:
    • Bass into SMax input
    • Take an XLR to 1/4" cable and run SMax direct out (mic level, pre EQ) into the inst. input of SL
    • Connect at least 1 cab to each amp

    Go Chris Squire Style: cut lows and Distort the Streamliner, boost lows and keep the ShuttleMax clean.


    Not to mention I'd like to be able to throw my SL in my gigbag and just have the gigbag and 1 lightweight cab to walk with for small rehearsals.
     
  14. Well having both gives me the option to do it either way...cool stuff indeed
     
  15. jumblemind

    jumblemind I also answer to Bryan Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2011
    Knoxville
    Jeez louise, my bad ya'll. OP never said he loved the sound of the Streamliner, just that he wanted more of a tube sound with the ShuttleMax. Do a search, there are threads about decent tube preamps for $300. But by all means, get a Streamliner and do the FX loop connection, which was my first response. I don't think the XLR to 1/4" is a good fwiw.


     
  16. No problem, I didn't say I liked the streamliner in the first post: I tried the Streamliner in a store once and I definitely didn't hate it, it was much easier to get a thick tone, but I liked the more flexible EQ options of the SMax more at the time and ultimately went with that.

    The DI of both amps have the option to switch to mic or line level. I just did a test where I ran a mic cable from the DI out into Pro Tools (with the ShuttleMax DI set to pre EQ and MIC level)...the signal level is about the same as if I just plugged the bass in directly to the interface preamp. Also, it's pre-everything, the only thing that works is the mute switch, none of the gain stages on the amp have any influence on the pre EQ DI signal.

    All of this is secondary to the fact that on both the SMax and the SL panels (and in the manuals for both), the FX loops clearly say line level...that's because in these amps (maybe contrary to other amps?), all of the FX loops are after the preamp, but some of them (FET and TUBE channel loops) are before the channel EQ whereas the master loops are after the channel EQ.
     
  17. jumblemind

    jumblemind I also answer to Bryan Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2011
    Knoxville
    No, i would venture to say that all FX loops are after the preamp. Like I said, that's the point. But i was wrong saying they aren't line level.
     
  18. Dave W

    Dave W Supporting Member

    Mar 1, 2007
    White Plains
    In the used market there are tons. I certainly can't list them all, but...

    Aguilar DB659
    Aguilar DB680
    Alembix F1X
    Ampeg SVP-CL
    Ampeg SVP-Pro
    Ampeg SVT-IIP
    Demeter HBP-1
    Demeter VTBP-201
    Fender TBP-1
     
  19. mystic38

    mystic38

    Dec 4, 2012
    Mystic CT
    in option #2.. I would connect tuner out of the STM to the Smax...its pre-eq, though unaffected by mute..

     

Share This Page