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Used Amp Pricing Standards?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by brotherbassj, Oct 4, 2009.


  1. brotherbassj

    brotherbassj

    Sep 20, 2008
    Virginia
    Jim Dunlop USA, King Kong Cases, Golden Eagle Energy Drink
    Hey all. I would like to get consensus on how people price there amps. To me a used piece of gear is a used piece of gear and should generally (key word here) sell for say X percent off the price of a new amp. Also is it "bad business or practice" to offer lower pricing to where it "should be" I have bought and sold all sorts of gear and in my opinion, as soon as you want out (or after 30 days) your gear depreciates instantly! I feel gear should be somewhere between 25-50 percent off original price depending on the condition (i knkow thats broad but gotta start somewhere). So say a carvin amp should be 25% off original price as well as a mesa as well as an aguilar. I am somewhat surprised in the "general practice" of used gear sales.....especially between private parties. It seems worth is subjective to individuals versus objective in general.

    It is what it is. I am not whining. I am just wondering what people think on the forum in general. Thanks in advance.
    :bag:
     
  2. I don't think there are standards. A used piece of gear is worth what it will sell for. Some people offer unreal deals and some try to get as much as possible. The market will generally decide how much it's worth.

    Mike
     
  3. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    to me it's all pure economics. supply and demand, what's hot and what's not, trends, and as we all know these days, how the overall economy is.

    As a few of you may recall, about 4 years ago i lost a high paying job and had to sell a bunch of my gear. Fortunately most of it was used so i could sell it for close to what i paid. If I still had that job today I would be buying gear like mad because there is a lot of stuff on the market cheap due to the economy (essentially what happened to me 4 years ago happened to everyone at once and they need the $$$)

    years ago SWR was super hot. everybody wanted it. a few years later eden was the next best thing. Fast forward to five years ago and aguilar, epifani, bergantino, ea, etc were the latest and greatest. people sold their swr and eden stuff like crazy to finance their purchases of the new stuff.
     
  4. johnk_10

    johnk_10 vintage bass nut Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 16, 2008
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    John K Custom Basses
    as a general rule of thumb, i always go by 50% off of list price for a 'desirable' or piece of gear that is in demand, and around 60-65% for gear that isn't, taking into account that most places that sell new gear sell it for 25-30% off of list.
     
  5. jnewmark

    jnewmark Just wanna play the groove. Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2006
    Stax 1966
    Third St. Cigar Records staff musician.
    I guess if you are talking about used gear in the last 10 years or so, I would say 50% is a good benchmark. It's in the area of " vintage " stuff where I really get pissed off at the outrageous prices sellers want. I paid $800 for a '67 Ampeg B15N that was in really good shape. I thought at the time that it was overpriced, but gas took over as it usually does. I see similiar ones today going for $1300 and it makes me sick. If I sold my Ampeg today, I would ask a little more, as I did some upkeep on it ( a speaker recone and new jack ), but is it really worth $1300 ? And don't even get me started on " vintage " basses !

    Ebay is really a good source to see what people are charging for used gear and occaisionally you get lucky. For example, I notice that a used MarkBass F1 usually goes for around $500 or so, but I bid $335 for one and won it, much to my surprise. I would'nt have bid $500 for it though. Just my two cents.
     
  6. Jazzman

    Jazzman

    Nov 26, 2002
    Raleigh, NC
    I use to work for a shop that used this '50% of list' rule as a starting place...it then went up or down depending on demand.
     
  7. kranahan

    kranahan Supporting Member

    up on cl and ebay things are selling at a little above 50%
     
  8. KramerBassFan

    KramerBassFan

    Jan 3, 2009
    The Only Standard is that there is NO Standard..... Bass gear prices change. Quite Regularly..... But used, and buy obscure is what i do....
     
  9. edbass

    edbass

    Nov 8, 2004
    +1
    All of this "percentage of new retail price" palaver is only relevent if you have a product that people absolutely must have and can't be found anywhere else. It's been my experience that very little musical gear falls into that category.
    Particularly in the last couple of decades of the internet; the "Great Equalizer".
    Unless of course the government should decide to step in and control pricing on used gear...:rolleyes:
    Also; jnewmark, you "really get pissed off at the outrageous prices sellers want" for vintage gear? Why on earth would the price someone is asking for a piece of gear even bother you? Are these sellers forcing you to buy their gear at gunpoint?
    Just walk away. Life is too short; why waste the energy getting upset about it?
    If these evil capitalists can actually sell the vintage gear for the asking price, then obviously the piece was worth what they were asking, if they can't sell it for what they want then it isn't worth the money.
    Thankfully, no one can dictate the used market except the end users.
    You can spout pricing concepts and theory until you are blue in the face, but what a consumer will actually pay is the only number that matters.

    Maybe it's simply a terminology issue, but by and large eBay is not "a good source to see what people are charging for used gear" unless you only research "buy it now" completed auctions. It's a good barometer of market value though, because it reflects what someone was actually willing to pay for an item.

    HOW COULD YOU RIP A PERSON OFF LIKE THAT!!!! You say that the F1 "usually goes for around $500 or so", and yet you only gave the seller $335? I'll bet that the seller's family needed that money to pay the rent or buy food and you have the nerve to rip them off for $165?
    Of course I'm being sarcastic, but your eBay purchase really isn't consistant with someone who should "get pissed off at the outrageous prices sellers want" for vintage gear. ;)
     
  10. In most cases, used gear can fetch anywhere between 50%-70% of the MAP price.

    Ex: Amp A typicly streets for $500 new... So $350 would be a fair used price for a piece is great shape. Of course if the piece has issues (full of stickers, covered in a layer of dirt, scratchy pots, ect..) then you could see prices as low as $250.

    But again, desirability does come into play. I've seen some gear sell used more than new (Ric's come to mind) becuase there is such a high demand for the unit.
     
  11. brotherbassj

    brotherbassj

    Sep 20, 2008
    Virginia
    Jim Dunlop USA, King Kong Cases, Golden Eagle Energy Drink
    I agree......and I am not talking manufacturers suggested list. Most stores go by 30-35% off suggested list price. I fine it hard to believe that say something with a street price of 550 get posted a year old for 450 or something that costs $1799 new gets posted for 1450 used but people expect a pice that costs $2400 (all street pricing) new to be sold for 1k......we all want good or great deals, but fair is fair. I sell my stuff for wwhat I believe is a fair price but would never offer a typical sday p bass that cost me say 900 for 800 a year or two later.........LOL

    I like things as inexpensive as the next guy and always want a deal too, but some people on here (or any other board for that matter, or any customer at their local music store)have got to get insulted at times at the insane low ball offers they get. I am lucky as I NEVER HAVE TO sell something when I do post..........so I can afford to sit on something.......
     
  12. jnewmark

    jnewmark Just wanna play the groove. Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2006
    Stax 1966
    Third St. Cigar Records staff musician.
    Wow, I really flipped your switch, did'nt I ? First of all, the price of " vintage " stuff is through the roof, especially when they are asking mucho bucks for PARTS of guitars from years ago. It does'nt piss you off, fine, it psses me off and I'm not alone in that camp.

    Also, what has getting a good deal on Ebay for an amp that came out, what, 5 years ago, got to do with being pissed off about outrageous prices for amps that came out 50 years ago? :eyebrow: I guess I don't see the inconsistency. I said used equipment from the last 10 years is being sold at around 50 % of new price. The F1 was bought at auction for a good price, somewhat less than 50 % but not that far off. An Ampeg B15N starts off on auction for $1300 ! Most people can't even place a bid at that price. Sorry, that pisses me off.
     
  13. edbass

    edbass

    Nov 8, 2004
    First, I wasn't trying to get you even more "pissed off". I just don't understand why the way the free market works would actually anger someone.
    Simply put, my point is; if there weren't people willing to pay the big money, the sellers wouldn't be getting the big money. The buyers set the used market, not the sellers.
    Are you also "pissed off" at the people buying the vintage stuff?

    I think that used is used. What do you think should be done about your perception that vintage gear is too expensive? What is your solution to this situation? Are you suggesting that legislation be passed regulating pricing on gear of a specific vintage? :confused:

    I agree but would change one word in your statement; "...used equipment from the last 10 years is being bought at around 50 % of new price" because without somebody buying the gear there is no transaction for you to calculate a percentage with.
    Here's an example; While I respect their loyal fan base (including some of my closest bassist buddies), I personally am not a huge Markbass fan, but I sure wouldn't mind having one for the right price to keep in my gig bag as a backup.
    I'd buy yours for $250, should I be "pissed off" at you if you won't sell it for that?

    The question is... did it sell? If so, then that's what is was worth, just like your F1 is almost certainly worth more than $250. If it didn't sell, the seller started the auction too high and paid for the mistake by losing their listing fees.
    Regardless, I still fail to see how it's anything to get "pissed off" about.
    IMO $1300 is too much for a vintage B15N unless it's brand freekin' new with original tubes testing 100+%, and even then I probably wouldn't go $1300.

    But... it doesn't make me mad. ;)
     
  14. Korladis

    Korladis Banned Supporting Member

    Depends on supply and demand.

    For a very common piece of gear, and models that are still being made (or very similar ones are), the price will be much lower than something that's high quality and discontinued.
     
  15. Like anything else, it's only worth what someone will pay. The "book" value on vintage stuff may not be obtainable in today's marklet but by the same token, somneone might have been looking for a specific piece for years, finally finds one and is willing to pay a bit too much for it just to finally have it. On one hand you have more recent stuff and you can only get 50% of what you paid for it and you feel ripped off, but if you are buying right now there are some good deals out there. Two weeks from now Jo-Jo celebrity tells Bass Player Magazine "I'll only use (fill in the blank), that's my tone" and it goes from being worth 50% of what you paid to 110% because the changes to the new model made the current production ones "worse". It becomes all the rage, you can't find them anywhere or if you do they are shooting up to 200% of original prices (aka Akai Deep Impact story)... Better or worse is opinion, so it what something is worth. But it comes down to part with the cash time, what would someone today actually pay? I didn't even mention condition variables, but scattered prices reflect a scattered market.
     

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