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Using a switched wah as a switchless....

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by IcedEarthWOM, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. IcedEarthWOM


    Oct 2, 2005
    Demos for reference:

    I now boost the bass on my amp (even though it kills the headroom) and use the wah as a mid/treble "selector". This allows me to use my Dime CryBaby as a switchless wah as well as have a tone filter without loosing bottom end!!!!

    Now the first question might be: "why didn't you just go with a 105q and just boost the mids on the amp??? Then you could just hold down the wah when you wanted treble....."

    The answer is a couple of things:

    1) the 105 doesn't have a sweep range selector (very important for me) or a 2nd dry output which I'll use for a tuner.

    2) the 105 doesn't have a way to select the freq range of the heel position. The CFH has 6. Between this and the Q control I have a sweepable mid control no matter what amp I use!!!!!!! :D

    3) this reason has a lot to do with the fact that when using a bass with a wah the volume drops when on. The reviews on Harmony Central of old model 105's (without the volume control) and "tests" useing my wah with a regular guitar confirm this. Luckely the CFH has a boost switch with a variable volume for it. The new 105's have a volume (boost level) knob but not the switch, so the boost is always on. With the switch I basically have a "pad switch" in case I ever use an Active bass with equiptment that doesn't have a switch.

    4) finally, if I did just boost the mids on the amp and hold down the 105 for more treble, the bass gets cut. With my setup, the wah cuts the bass no matter what position it's in. I then boost the bass back up on the amp and voila.... no "bass loss" at all!!!!! :D

    I just love this thing now :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
    (can ya feel it?)

    BTW, considering that I ended up with the CFH model after returning another brand of wah that was defective, someone up there really must like me :D :D :D :D :cool:
  2. dude, you've sure changed your mind quite a bit recently to do with your rig! especially with wahs. i expect to see another thread by you next telling us what you've changed :p

    so basically your running the wah all the time? if you are, when you heel back for more bass, doesnt it sound weird? or am i reading wrong?
  3. IcedEarthWOM


    Oct 2, 2005
    Oh, I realize that I've changed my mind alot :D and I am now running the wah ALL the time

    The reason for this change is that I read the wah manual and found the exact freq centers for the heel pos. I origanally thought that it should be in the 40-100 Hz range. I really don't know why, but I did :oops:
    After reading the manual I found that the centers would work really well as bass MIDS. That's when I decided to get a 10-band. But then I thought: "If the bass is getting "cut" by the wah, why not just boost it at the amp..."
    Now, up untill now I've run the amp "bass-flat, mid-boost, treble-cut" so I changed it to "bass-boost, mid-flat, treble-cut" and it works beautifully. You see I've been looking for a Mid-heavy sound for the majority of my playing, but I've also wanted a more trebly sound for some applications (intros, fills, etc...), and I love some of the wah action in "Pulling Teeth" (Cliff Burton). Now I've bassically got all that with 2 EQ filters:

    1) the wah is to select between a mid heavy/treble cut (heel) or mid cut/treble heavy (toe) sound
    2) the amp restores the bass "lost" from the wah and controls exess amounts of treble boost when the wah is toe'd.

    the path of my signal and the effects are as follows:

    Bass: using P-style pickup for fatter sound. The tone knob rolled compleatly on to give lots of treble to...

    The Wah: this appears to cut the bass in any position. When rocked back it cuts the treble but boosts the mids in 6 posible freq positions rangeing from 250 Hz (darker sound) to 440 Hz (brighter sound). When rocked forward it appears to cut the previously boosted mids and boosts the treble freqs. The center for the treble boost is based on the Heel Freq and Sweep Range knobs. The level of these boosts is controled by a Q knob. This then feeds into....

    The Amp: on this the Bass knob is used to bring back the apparently "lost" bass from the wah. The Mid knob is centered as the wah has basically become my mid controll. The Treble knob is cut all the way to controll the exxess high freqs that seem to appear in the toe pos.

    Unfortunatly I can't just cut the tone on the bass and boost the treble on the amp. It doesn't seem to be quite the same, though some experimentation is in order.

    To answer you question about it sounding wierd: It did before I boosted the bass at the amp. And thats why I origanally tossed it off of my board: It sounded thin. After reading the manual and realizing how to use it properly, the way I wanted, my bass now sounds full and thick.

    BTW because I don't have the Q on full I'm thinking about getting the Programmable Bass Driver instead of the Para.
    Now, lack of mid controll doesn't bug me: The wah has become that, and I still have room to boost (if I need to).

    Also, the three channal thing would work great :D :
    1) clean
    2) distorted
    3) mute
  4. crikey. it puzzles me how any person would come to think that idea up! :p

    couldnt you have basically done the same thing with a graphic eq?... Run your bass eq and amp eq in your most common playing style - boosted mid growl sound. And then on your graphic eq dial in a more treble-ish sound.

    Ive only tried 2 wahs so far (v-wah and 105q), and i found on the v-wah, if you have your toe down, theres quite a bit of hiss/noise that it creates. IS this a problem with your set up now when you change to a trebly toe down position?

    oh yeh, i just won an ibanez weeping demon on ebay! :D woooooo
  5. bass_drum


    Feb 13, 2005
    haha I think that makes three of us who have purchased one this week. Tell me what you think! I should be getting mine sometime around wednesday:D

    By the way, when I get it, I will review it and the Jekyll & Hyde I just bought today (!!!!:D:D:D:D!!!!) and will include some clips of them beign used together, seperately and distortion > Wah and Wah > Distortion. Should be real fun!
  6. woo. weeping demon party. :meh:
    Yes, i too shall be doing a review... i will probably stick it in your thread, to give more perspective on it.

  7. bass_drum


    Feb 13, 2005
    Sounds good to me..if u get it before me, then go for it and I'll post on ur thread.
  8. IcedEarthWOM


    Oct 2, 2005
    I have a very visual imagination. I can just imagine what the 2 EQ curve looks like and "add" them together :smug: I acctually play bass the same way: I don't hear a line as "notes", I see it as a pattern on the fretboard. Wierd eh....

    I could have..... but then I wouldn't have a wah as well :smug:
  9. bass_drum


    Feb 13, 2005
    I used to just see songs as a pattern on the fretboard.

    Do you know your fretboard very well?
    Do you read music?

    Reading music really changed my perspective,and borrowing my friends fretless didnt hurt either :smug: .
  10. IcedEarthWOM


    Oct 2, 2005
    I really want to properly learn both :(
    Any suggestions???
  11. bass_drum


    Feb 13, 2005
    My teacher always told me to go through the circle of fifths and play those notes over and over, or to hit all A's on your fretboard, then all B's, then all C's, etc. (when doing this say the note name out loud). That exercise didn't help me a ton, but YMMV. I found what worked best for me, was to find little patterns (such as down one string and up five frets = same note, up one string and seven frets= octave) . At first I would continually look back to find a note I knew and then count up to the note I was wondering about.As I kept playing and practicing I got way better and intead of thinking "okay this is one fret up from the seventh fret on the a string wich is a....E..." I just knew what the note was. Also, I started out by memorizing my first position, to the enth degree! lol

    To read music, again I would suggest you memorize your first position and then buy one of those "Learn to play bass part 1" books. They will start you off very slowly, but it will help alot in the long run. Once the book picks up and instead of just whole notes, it gets into moving or quicker lines, then say the name of the note as you play it (you wouldnt think it would but it helps a lot for this). I would also advise staying away from tab when trying to learn to read music. When I first started out I was reading really well, until my cousin introduced tab to me. I didnt see the point in reading music so I went straight to tab all the time :spit: . Obviously that hurt me a lot, because as my music teacher always says "Musicians Never stay in one spot, they are always getting a little better or a little worse". The second time I attempted to learn to read music, I totally cut out everything else I was doing and stayed VERY far away from tab, and it worked wonders.

    Again, YMMV. I hope this helped a little!

  12. true, but you could have the wah aswell and use it for some different tones.

    Did you end up getting rid of your v-wah?
  13. IcedEarthWOM


    Oct 2, 2005
    Ya, but it works the way I want, and I'm not about to change it....

    No, I now have it collecting dust on my guitar board that now goes:
    Boss TU-2 -> Boss MD-2 -> Boss V-Wah -> Boss RV-5

    the TU-2 gets shared between the 2 boards.

    My bass board is CFH -> (wet) Boss NS-2 / (dry) Boss Tu-2 -> Dunlop HighGain -> amp

    :meh: , now that I think about it I haven't really practiced my guitar in like 6 months........

    But thats just cus
  14. bwow bwow OHHHH YEEEHHHHH chick chickahhh!

    Actually, the v-wah sounds really good on guitar. the main thing i didnt like on bass was in toe down, there was quite a bit of hiss. And the distortion couldnt be bypassed. So if you had the distortion on with the wah, then turned the wah off, the distortion would stay on. That and the volume drop with any other wah apart from the "bass mix". Using the booster would help this, and it would sound normal with no REAL low end loss. But again, the boost would stay on with the wah off.
  15. IcedEarthWOM


    Oct 2, 2005
    I get the hiss when the CFH is toe'd as well but I just use my NS-2 and it works out quite well. A lot of the hiss from mine is the fact that I have to have the tone control (on the bass) rolled completly on in order to get a good "wah" sound. My bass isn't really well made and the grounding sucks. It'll do me for now but I really want to get a 5-string with a single MM pickup. After I get my rig together (one more pedal :D ), I plan on saving for it.

    I swear I'm gonna have to start workin' the streets fo' some doh :rolleyes:

    Oh, and BTW the CFH has the volume drop that seems to happen with all wahs when used with bass. Even the older versions of the 105 that's meant for bass :( . Seems the new ones have a volume/boost knob to correct this. The CFH has the same boost level knob but has a switch to turn on the boost (the boost is always on for the new 105s).

    EDIT: Changed my sig