Variation in hip hop!

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by Wrong Robot, Jun 8, 2003.

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  1. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002
    A common misconception with a lot of rap music is that it is all the same. Just a repeated beat, ad nauseum, with some people rapping over it.

    I have found, that, especially in modern rap music, there is more variation than most main stream rock.

    When I hear a rock song these days, it's always very very generic. So much so, that I can usually guess the chord progressions and be correct upon the first time hearing it.

    The lyrics are even worse, sparse thoughtless lyrics that mean nothing till the chorus which repeats many times.

    But with much rap music these days, the production of the breaks is at a point where, while the actual drum track, might remain the same, the other things going on in hte break are constantly changing, flowing with the rappers, and moving with the progression of hte song.

    yet still, rap music is always percieved as having little or no variation when it comes to the musical aspect.

    this is certinaly the case for some old-school styled free-stylers, a lot of simple underground stuff, like gang-starr, doesn't have much variation, but then there are a lot of newer fresh acts, like J5, Blackalicous, Hieroglyphics, aesop rock...and the list goes on and on.

    even in the mainstream world. I was listenin to some BS, I don't even remember who it was, but the break was happening, it was interesting, dynamic, and way more complex than the rest of hte stuff that was played afterwards.

    I wish people could reconsider what they are saying when they diss rap.

    It is as valid a form of music as anything else, and it shouldn't be dismayed so much.
  2. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    Wow, that's a rant if I ever saw one! :D

    Well I don't know that much about rap and hiphop, but most stuff that makes it to here (and almost all national stuff - yes, there is German hiphop - and the good stuff even has a great flow) is still too loopy and minimalistic for my taste, and just a backdrop for the raps.
    I hardly ever listen to lyrics, and I simply don't understand most of the stuff they're saying anyway :p )

    I also just can't relate to the "socio-cultural" aspect of it, it just doesn't make any sense to me. I come from a rural area, where you either heard mainstream or metal/punk, but no hiphop/rap (at least back then, I'm getting old :D ).

    .02 cts
  3. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002
  4. Killdar


    Dec 16, 2002
    Portland Maine
    actually what intrigues me is when the techno/trance dudes dis rap.....uh.....ok then.

    I say, who cares what other people say about music. to each his own. I like certain rap, I like certain anything, as long as its good. People who say any kind of music is repetitive, boring, stupid, whatever, aren't listening to the good examples of that genre.
  5. People say that rap lyrics are stupid and all the same. they say that the music is not creative and is very boring. They say that the idea of having 40 other people rapping on every one of your songs is ridiculous. This is all true....for commercial rap. What people dont stop to think about is that most music you see on mtv is not very good. If mtv represented all the music in the world, i probably wouldnt love music as much as i do. With most kinds of current music, you need to dig a little to find the good stuff. People tell me rap sucks all the time so i ask them: Have you ever heard of The Roots, Blackalicous, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, or Jurassic 5?
    I usually get a "who?", proving my point that hip-hop is shunned mostly by those who let Nelly and 50 cent represent the whole genre.
  6. Coypu

    Coypu Banned

    Feb 24, 2003
    The so called "good" rap isn't as good as people make it out to be. Sure it's alot better than mainstream rap but take J5 as an example. This band is rather mediokre but since they are playing their instruments themselves they get hyped as some sort of amazing band. In reality they are halfassed at best but since the competition in the genre is so bad they still are in the top in that genre.
  7. I only call it good rap because i think it is good, not good when compared to bad rap. You know, some people think hardcore and metal is just a bunch of screaming and detuned guitars, but they dont actually listen to it, they just base their opinions on the very small portion of the genre they have heard. I think I heard somebody talking about that today, cant remember who.:rolleyes:
  8. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002
    You are confusing the roots with J5.

    J5 are known for their vocal harmonies(4 MCs)

    The Roots are a band, Keys, bass, drums, and vocalists.
  9. Coypu

    Coypu Banned

    Feb 24, 2003
    The difference is that I have heard what I comment on. I know that theese bands are rather medicore musicians and composers since I have heard them. A person saying that about metal have obviously never heard any good bands. I'll gladly check out ANY rap music group you can dig up, I can however garantie you that I can find plenty of bands from my favorite genres who are atleast twice as skilled musicians and composers. Sure you can argue that it is a taste issue but I think we should draw the line somewher. Pop, Rock & Rap music is where it should be above.
  10. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002
    I think you are missing the point slightly coypu.

    I was comparing Rap with mainstream music. And how, even though most mainstream music is just as, or more repetive and simplistic as some rap music, there is a wealth of rap music that is far more complex, both lyrically, and musically.

    Of course there are many great bands with great musicians, making great music, that is far more complex than ANY rap out there. But that is not the topic at hand.
  11. Coypu

    Coypu Banned

    Feb 24, 2003
    Mmm, but what is the point comparing rap with something really bad. It's like saying that I'm a great bassplayer compared to Mark hoppus... It's better to face facts that my skills are **** compared to Gary Willis and go from there.

    But I shall make a positive contribution to this thread which is in favour of rap music. There is a band called Screaming Headless Torsos who sortof have rap vocals at time (pretty mild stuff though), that band have some serious talent and are pretty good.
  12. DanGouge


    May 25, 2000
    For what it's worth I would put ?uestlove from The Roots up against any drummer from any popular sort of genre.
  13. Saetia


    Mar 27, 2003
    This is where catagories suck, seriously, you have people saying rap sucks, people saying metal sucks, rock, hardcore, and everything inbetween. It's music, there're many very talented rap musicians out there, who have more skill then many on this site, and many other bands out there. Just as there is with metal, and so on, as Ryan Berry said you have to dig a little to find the good stuff, if you take any kind of music at a glance it will come off like that. people have different tastes, just because it doesn't nessesarily apeal to someone doesn't automatically suck. Talent from trance, techno, metal, rock hardcore, blues, jazz, rap, hip hop, R&B, and everything inbetween it's all different, but there is good and bad, you just have to look for the good stuff, Ryan Berry is the man on this one!:D
  14. fivestringdan

    fivestringdan Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2001
    Little Rock, AR
    The Roots completely changed my conception of that form of music. Before that, I didn't even consider it musical. They are TRUE artists and deserve as much respect as the Beatles.
  15. Coypu

    Coypu Banned

    Feb 24, 2003
    Jazz is popular so how about Virgil Donati then.
  16. Coypu

    Coypu Banned

    Feb 24, 2003
    Indeed, I even respect them more than the Beatles. Good call there.

    Well, you are both right and wrong. In some cases this is true like in metal for example, when we look at rap you will find that the "elite" is on a much lower level than the best in jazz, fusion & metal for example. I think that we should try and dig out the very best in music and unfortunately rap music is severly lacking in that department.
  17. I think of music as affecting three places: your head, your heart, and your ass. For me to consider a piece of music truly great, it needs to hit at least two of those. Commercial rap is ass-only; most pop and rock is heart-only (and a lot is so recycled as to have very little effect on that particular organ). But A Tribe Called Quest or Blackalicious--those two hit my head and my ass on a consistent basis, and oftentimes my heart as well.

    I've heard Virgil Donati and while he does lots for my head, he sure doesn't do much for my ass.
  18. What's your definition of "best?" Most technically difficult? :rolleyes:
  19. Thanks, i am so :cool:


    Coypu, I think the biggest thing we would disagree on is whether or not technical ability makes you a better musician. I know that Mike Portnoy could probably beat ?uestlove in a competition base on chops, but I think ?uestlove is a "better" drummer. John Myung is probably more technically proficient than Stuart Zender, but I think Stu is a "better" bassist. It all comes down to opinion and personal taste.
  20. Exactly.

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