Volume crisis

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by SWRnut, Jun 28, 2008.

  1. SWRnut


    Apr 21, 2008
    Columbia, SC
    Need some opinions. Right now I am using a SWR SM-900 with a Schroeder 410R and a 1212R in a "classic" rock band, but I just don't get quite the volume that I thought I would. The tone is killer, but I feel a little underpowered. I don't want to increase the weight of my rack if at all possible, but expected a little more oomph. I am in the process of swapping the 1212 with a 412L, but am questioning the best amp to drive this combo. Any thoughts ? Considering a Thunderfunk TB750 or an Ampeg SVT8Pro.
  2. Eminor3rd

    Eminor3rd BLAAAAARRGGHH!! Supporting Member

    Feb 10, 2008
    As I am guessing many will ask: What are your EQ settings, because that should be PLENTY loud.
  3. SWRnut


    Apr 21, 2008
    Columbia, SC
    Shelving EQ is set as follows : 60hz. Level is at 12:00/ 100hz. Level is at 12:00/ 400hz (12:00) / 600 hz (12:30) / 2.4k (10:00) and 4k (1:00). Both Bass and treble are at 1:00.
    any ideas for changes ?
  4. Eminor3rd

    Eminor3rd BLAAAAARRGGHH!! Supporting Member

    Feb 10, 2008
    Well, it's certainly not the extreme scooping I was hoping (as it would be an easy fix), but if it helps, the peak of the audible human hearing spectrum lies between 1khz and 3khz, so the one frequency you're cutting is the "loudest." Therefore, boosting your 2.4khz will make your sound "cut through" better, although you may not like what it does to your tone.

    Try rolling the bass knob back to 12:00, and boost those upper mids a bit. The lower frequencies sound nice when boosted either at low volumes or with the bass as a standalone, but doing so is almost NEVER necessary in a band setting, especially a rock mix. The low end is quite prominent flat by the time it reaches the audience. Also, what is your aural enhancer set to?

    Edit: Make sure your input gain is set JUST BELOW the threshold of peaking. Turn the Master down, hit a hard low E and slowly raise the gain until it consistently flashes, then back it off just a bit until it stops. That will ensure that your preamp signal is as hot as it can be without distortion.
  5. RickenBoogie


    Jul 22, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    I would agree that what you have right now should absolutely kill. However, if you're set on replacing your head, just be aware that the SWR is super clean, and the 8 Pro's gonna have the Ampeg tone. Not saying that's bad, but it's different from what you have. I've got a 6 Pro and I love what it does, but Ampegs seem a bit underpowered when you consider the ratings they have. My 6 Pro is rated at 1100 watts, but sounds and feels more like half that. Also, your cabs are among the "loudest" available, so that's not your problem. Good luck, report back with your solution.
  6. Rick Auricchio

    Rick Auricchio Registered Bass Offender Supporting Member

    Are you sure your sound out in the house is weak, or is it just that you can't hear yourself well onstage?
  7. chadds


    Mar 18, 2000
    Those directions about setting the gain are spot on.
    Question. Can you do with no eq on your head?
    You can really be surprised what an SWR can do without the tone controls soaking up watts reproducing unhearable and unfeelable lows and/or giving too much hi end.
    I feel after using them for years that they can sound choked and limited in volume when more than slightly eq'd.
  8. chadds


    Mar 18, 2000
    What ohms are those cabs?
    Are you bridging the 900?
    If the cabs are 8 ohms each in stereo you aren't pushing them much.

    Note: All measurements were taken with a line voltage of 120VAC. All noise specifications are
    “unweighted.” All voltages and watts are “RMS.”
    Bridge/Mono Mode
    900 Watts @ 4 Ohms
    650 Watts @ 8 Ohms
    440 Watts @ 16 Ohms
    (minimum load = 4 Ohms)
    Stereo Mode (per side)
    400 watts @ 4 Ohms
    240 watts @ 8 Ohms
    144 watts @ 16 ohms
    (minimum load = 2 Ohms)
    FREQUENCY RESPONSE (power amplifiers): –3dB @ 20 Hz and 40kHz
  9. ihixulu

    ihixulu Supporting Member

    Mar 31, 2000
    South Shore MA
    First, make sure it's bridged as chadds suggested.

    What is your Aural Enhancer set to? If you have it above 9 o'clock or so you may want to bump ~200hz a bit.

    Finally, are you clipping the power amps at all?
  10. SWRnut


    Apr 21, 2008
    Columbia, SC
    OK. Hopefully, I am going to answer all of the questions.
    I am running stereo, not bridged.
    Aural Enhancer is set at 1:30
    All cabinets are 4 ohms.
    FoH rocks. It's really my onstage volume that is a question.
    I appreciate all your info regarding the eq settings as well. I will try those tonight.
  11. JonathanD


    Dec 13, 2006
    Atlanta, GA
  12. chadds


    Mar 18, 2000
    Good luck tonight and break a leg.
    That much Aural Enhancer sucks tone live.
  13. JonathanD


    Dec 13, 2006
    Atlanta, GA
    If this is the case...I would suggest getting further away from your rig and try to angle the top cab up a little. So, lets say that the cabs are on top of each other. Put a 2X4(or something a little classier) under the top cab in the front so it points more at your head.

    Also, are you sure you are turning up as loud as you need to? Are you pushing the head? In some situations you can not get the full amount out of your head even if you have the master all the way up. I would say turn the amp up until the clip light starts showing...then turn it down ever so slightly. maybe that will help.
    best of luck

  14. fretlessman71

    fretlessman71 Still beats havin' a job Supporting Member

    Aug 8, 2005
    FoCo, NoCo
    A good rule of thumb is to have the post twice as high as the pre regarding gain. That also might make a difference in getting clean volume loud.

    And I agree with pointing a cabinet directly at your head. This makes all the difference.

    I used to have a Peavey Firebass 700 head with two 4 ohm cabinets (2x10, 1x15) that was so loud I used to overpower my guitarist and his Three Marshall Amps. Now, this resulted in 700 watts @ 2 ohms, so yeah, it was going to be freakin' loud.

    Any way you can turn your setup into a 2 ohm system? It makes a difference...
  15. Rick Auricchio

    Rick Auricchio Registered Bass Offender Supporting Member

    So, since it's stage volume, you might not want to screw with your tone. Otherwise, the house is going to hear it differently.

    Get your cabs up higher, closer to your ears.
  16. Kill that Aural Enhancer and try that. You'll find you'll be able to turn your Master Volume up a few more clicks before clipping.
  17. Gearhead17

    Gearhead17 Supporting Member

    May 4, 2006
    Mount Prospect, IL
    That aural enhancer is getting rid of your midrange frequencies which are a large part of why you can't hear your self. Put that knnob at "0" and make sure you don't boost the bass too crazy on your bass guitar.

    I swear we should call the Aural Exciter, the "Fieldy Knob", it just upps the highs, kills the mids - instant clacky & rumbling bass tone.
  18. SWRnut


    Apr 21, 2008
    Columbia, SC
    I bridged the amp, rolled back the aural enhancer and tweaked pre and post volumes.
    I was in heaven. Thanks for everyone's input. I felt like I had a whole new setup.
    I can save my money for a new bass now.
  19. chadds


    Mar 18, 2000
    Thanks for listening!
  20. buzzbass


    Apr 23, 2003
    Tenn. & NJ
    I'm using an SVT 4 pro with a 1212/310212 combo, and it crushes everything for miles :hyper: