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Watt Headroom??

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bass fishing, Dec 3, 2016.


  1. bass fishing

    bass fishing

    Dec 3, 2016
    Hey peeps!

    Is it a bad idea to pump *1200 watts @ 8ohms into an *800 watt @ 8 ohms (rms)
    1600 watt (peak) cab? Over time? At all? I feel like thats 400 watts of headroom with 400 to spare until damage. Any help appreciated.
    Thanks!

    *Ampeg SVT-4Pro into GK NEO 410.
     
  2. RoadRanger

    RoadRanger Supporting Member

    Feb 18, 2004
    NE CT
    Which "Ampeg SVT Pro" are you talking about?
     
  3. Peak is instantaneous. The speaker is rated to take peak levels for very short durations, perhaps measured only in seconds or even milli-seconds.
    Peak figures should not be used to figure headroom.
    The way I look at, you are constantly over-driving the cab by 400 watts.
    Thermal as well as mechanical considerations come into play.
    Peak ratings do not take these factors into account over times of seconds or longer.
    Or put more simply, I think it us a bad idea.
     
    Sartori likes this.
  4. bass fishing

    bass fishing

    Dec 3, 2016
    SVT-4Pro
     
  5. RoadRanger

    RoadRanger Supporting Member

    Feb 18, 2004
    NE CT
    That one is only 900w at 8 ohms.

    But, I try to never power a cab at over 1/2 its rating - especially if I'm going use any overdrive whether from a pedal or the amp itself. With overdrive the amp's true output can approach 2x its rating :wideyed:.
    But as I often say here - "Smoke 'em if yah got 'em" :nailbiting:
     
    Sartori and Old Garage-Bander like this.
  6. If you dime your gain and master levels....probably not enough cab. But i doubt your doing that.
     
  7. SanDiegoHarry

    SanDiegoHarry Banned Supporting Member

    Aug 11, 2008
    San Diego, CA
    Yup. Just don't be dumb with your amp and you should be fine.
     
    lz4005 likes this.
  8. You can but be carefull on the master volume. Judge by your hear, specialy if you have an aggressive style (slapping or picking).
     
    MTN.bass72 and Sartori like this.
  9. BadExample

    BadExample

    Jan 21, 2016
    Injiana
    And don't let anyone touch it.
     
    Leo was right likes this.
  10. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Peak is generally 4x the "RMS" or thermal rating. 2x is due to purely a math conversion and 2x due to the crest factor used in the test that relates to the term "program power".
     
    65 P, Marley's Ghost, Whippet and 2 others like this.
  11. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune rational romantic mystic cynical idealist Commercial User

    Nov 24, 2008
    Princeton, Texas
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking too...

    I think the woofer is a custom 16-ohm Deltalite variant, presumably rated at 200 watts each instead of the normal 250 watts due to the thinner wire used to get the 16 ohm impedance. Good for GK taking that into account.
     
    BadExample likes this.
  12. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Don't they manufacture their own drivers?
     
  13. Al Kraft

    Al Kraft Supporting Member

    May 2, 2016
    Northern Virginia
    As best I understand it the GK Neo cabs have GK designed and built drivers - Paragon is the trade name for their speakers I believe. When manufacturing on amps and cabs was moved totally back to the US, I suppose it's possible that they could have run into a production capacity issue and needed to have some things produced by an outside supplier. However, at their price point I suspect they keep everything in house.
     
  14. Andyman001

    Andyman001 moderation must be taken with a grain of salt

    Feb 11, 2010
    Idaho
  15. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune rational romantic mystic cynical idealist Commercial User

    Nov 24, 2008
    Princeton, Texas
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    You know a whole lot more about the industry than I do, so I may well be wrong.

    If this is the woofer used in that cab: Gallien-Krueger 082 0460 B 10 Woofer for Neo 210 and 410 | Full Compass

    ...then imo it looks like a Deltalite, which doesn't preclude it from being manufacatured in-house.
     
    65 P likes this.
  16. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    As a side note, using a driver manufacturered by one of the major driver manufacturers gives service and replacement options that are not possible with drivers manufactured in house using some sourced parts. A top of the line driver by the top driver manufacturers are just about impossible to design and build in house for the cost that the majors can do it for since they can spread the tooling and design costs (plus economies of scale advantages) over hundreds of thousands of drivers... far more drivers than the entire bass industry as a whole uses.
     
  17. Al Kraft

    Al Kraft Supporting Member

    May 2, 2016
    Northern Virginia
    It would be interesting to see a side by side comparison of the various components. Perhaps GK uses a number of common cast parts and/or other components and does some unique things in assembly to keep costs low. I suppose it's also possible that they may have some unique business arrangement for sourcing rare-earth materials/Neodymium magnets and are able to gain a price advantage that way. It's difficult to imagine how they overcome the hurdle of absorbing the full amortization of production costs associated with in-house manufacturing while maintaining a high level of quality and offering highly competitive street pricing. Competing with economy of scale production benefits is an uphill climb, but sometimes folks find an edge or angle they can exploit - hopefully it's a sustainable advantage.
     
  18. DavC

    DavC Supporting Member

    May 17, 2005
    Tallmadge , Ohio
    I'd wanna know my amps clean headroom. ... like the specs I have on my better audio amps. !?
     
  19. Gizmot

    Gizmot

    Mar 22, 2009
    Nashville area
    To answer your original question, I think you should be able to power your speaker with 1 to 2 times the continuous rating of it AS LONG AS YOU DON'T DRIVE IT INTO CLIPPING.

    The thing about bass reproduction is that the signal is all transients. The good thing about transients is that the time gaps between notes let the voice coils cool down thereby lowering power compresseriom.

    As I've reported before, I use a total overabundance of power when I play. I use 2 × 400 watt cabinets and power them with a Powersoft amp that delivers 2,600 watts per channel, so I have boat loads of reserve power and headroom. I've never blown a single driver because I know the limits of what my setup will do and never push it harder than it can handle.
     
    MDBass, 65 P and interp like this.
  20. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    History has shown me that there are plenty of folks that also do not know their cabinet's limits when overpowered.

    Just because you, Gizmot, have been successful powering your rig the way you have only means that you have good judgement and reasonable expectation with your rig. Not every player shares your ability.
     
    MDBass and Sartori like this.

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