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Weight of driver in Fender Rumble V3 100?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by David Wheat, Apr 19, 2018.


  1. David Wheat

    David Wheat

    Apr 12, 2018
    Hi -- I'm thinking of replacing the 12" driver in my Rumble V3 100 with a coaxial so as to get a bit more top end going (I use it for my deep baritone acoustic guitar). But if this adds too much extra weight, then I might try to cram in a tweeter. The coax I'm looking at weighs 9 Ibs, so if I can find out what the weight of the existing driver is then I can decide the matter.
     
  2. If you've run the T/S numbers and found a coaxial that will handle bass guitar (as opposed to just low frequencies like a stereo woofer) and it works well in that cab, then it sounds like a plan.

    If not, I might suggest you sell the 100 and get the 200 if you like everything else about the Rumbles.
    Or find another combo with a 12 and a tweeter.

    But definitely keep the old 12 to put back in if/when you resell it. Otherwise its value to others may drop out the bottom.
     
  3. David Wheat

    David Wheat

    Apr 12, 2018
    Thanks for your reply. I did try the 200 and liked it a lot, but I want something that I can comfortably carry along
    the road along with my guitar. I can do that with the 100 as it's only 22 Ibs -- and I haven't found any other combo with a 12" speaker and a good cabinet size that is as light as that.
     
    Old Garage-Bander likes this.
  4. Jim C

    Jim C Spector#496:More curves than Sophia + better sound Supporting Member

    Nov 29, 2008
    It's crazy light; best sound per lb. combo out there IMO/IME
     
  5. David Wheat

    David Wheat

    Apr 12, 2018
    By the way, the coax I'm considering is the Fane Sovereign 12-250TC
     
  6. AstroSonic

    AstroSonic Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2009
    rural New Mexico
    Your goal apparently is to 'get a bit more top end going'. And you are concerned about weight.

    The stock driver produces a bass rich tone (a fair amount of bloom). Decreasing the amount of bass (mild cut of bass and low mids) will leave the existing highs more exposed (prominent). This may be all you need.

    The Fane driver you are looking at is a full range 12 inch driver, with a single magnet and voice coil (one motor) and a 'dual cone' (woofer cone and whizzer cone). While these are 'co-axial', the driver is not what is commonly referred to as a coaxial driver (like this one: "B&C 12FCX76 12" Professional Coaxial Speaker 80 x 80 8 Ohm" from www.parts-express.com!). A duo cone driver is an effective way to get extended highs. Another driver to consider is the Eminence Beta 12LTA: it weighs 1 1/2 pounds less than the Fane. It's highs are not as extended as the Fane's, but will offer more than 'a bit more top end'.

    You might also consider a Eminence Basslite S2012. It will have less prominent bass, though will still have a 'rich' bass, and will have more prominent upper mids and highs. It weighs less than half as much as the Fane and Beta drivers (4.1 lbs).
     
    BadExample and Linnin like this.
  7. ^^^This^^^ I put an Eminence Basslite S2012 in my Rumble 75 and love it ardently. Upgrading A Fender Rumble 75 Combo
     
    BadExample and AstroSonic like this.
  8. David Wheat

    David Wheat

    Apr 12, 2018
    Thanks very much AstroSonic and Linnin-- I'll look into these options.
     
    BadExample, Linnin and AstroSonic like this.
  9. David Wheat

    David Wheat

    Apr 12, 2018
    By the way, my acoustic guitar pickup is a Jim Kaufman Sunrise, and this needs a lot of mid-cut. But even with the mids cut severely, I can't get the top end as nice as I can on my SWR California Blonde -- a lovely amp, but weighs in at 50Ibs! -- I won't be strolling a mile down the road with that!
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  10. David Wheat

    David Wheat

    Apr 12, 2018
    Just had alook at the specs on the Eminence Basslite S2012, and the frequency range is given as 49Hz-4.5kHz
    I believe the Rumble 100 speaker also goes up tp 4.5 kHz, so I'm wondering if this would give me the high frequency increase that I'm after?
     
  11. FYI. The frequency response numbers mean little without knowing the levels.
    You need to see the associated db number as well.
    As in, the cab's response is 3db down at 49Hz.

    Cab design affects these numbers if you are comparing raw drivers.

    The speaker and the cab interact so the numbers you see, may not be the numbers you get.

    Linnin has some real world experience in the form of his speaker swap. It's not 100% the same thing, but you might chat with him about internal volume of the Rum 75 vs the Rum 100. It's always good to get as much info as possible from someone whos been down this road.

    Good luck and let us know how you come out.
     
    Linnin likes this.
  12. Cabinet design and tuning is as crucial as driver design. The V3 Rumble cabinets and Eminence drivers were co-designed together from the beginning to work in perfect harmony together. So you don't change drivers on a whim.
    Fender does not publish speaker cabinet or combo specifications, but 4 kHz is easy.

    If you look at some Eminence 12" guitar drivers they are all 80Hz to 4 - 4.5 kHz. They give guitar players all the highs they need and then some in open backed combos. No need for tweeters of any kind.

    The Basslite 12 is more than adequate to reproduce any highs any electric guitar might need. It's a bright speaker with a very broad and smooth midrange. The lows are tight and very well defined. Plus it's an efficient driver that will deliver a bit more volume. You will need to properly line your cabinet with acoustic treatment.

    The Fender Rumble 100 combo itself in pure stock from is an extremely capable and versatile amp for: Bass (of course); guitar, and keyboards too. It also takes pedals well. The modern active EQ has a ton of adjustment range available. Not enough highs to suit you? Crank the treble and roll off the bass. If that's not enough just hit the bright button. That will give you an immediate 10dB boost at 10kHz. That's twice as loud. Ex: 110dB is twice as loud as 100dB. Your Fender Rumble has the ability to give you a total of 25dB of treble boost. If you need more than that just strap a powered PA speaker to your bike.
     
    AstroSonic likes this.
  13. AstroSonic

    AstroSonic Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2009
    rural New Mexico
    I am currently using the S2012 in 2 different cabs (neither of which is a Rumble 100) and am very pleased with the result. The tone is much as Linnin describes above. It has a nice upper mid - lower treble presence, along with a punchy, articulate bass (when the cab is optimally tuned).

    Modeling of the Fane and Eminence whizzer-cone drivers suggests that they will also work well. I think you will get a deeper and more balanced tone from the Eminence.

    Lastly, you could just add a tweeter. I've used this one in vocal monitors with excellent results: "Peerless by Tymphany BC25SC08-04 1" Silk Dome Neodymium Tweeter with Waveguide 4 Ohm" from www.parts-express.com! In your case you'll need to make a 1 3/4 inch hole for it. The frame is 2 3/4 inches in diameter. You'll want to pad it down 6-8 db (use an L-pad or discrete resistors), and cross it over around 5 kHz ("Dayton Audio 5k-HPF-8 High Pass Speaker Crossover 5,000 Hz 12 dB/Octave" from www.parts-express.com!), with a 4 ohm resistor ("Dayton Audio DNR-4.0 4 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor" from www.parts-express.com!) in series (connected to the tweeter - makes it an 8 ohm load and provides some attenuation). It's not as easy as replacing the driver, but with an L-pad ("Parts Express Speaker L-Pad Attenuator 50W Mono 1" Shaft 8 Ohm" from www.parts-express.com!) you can blend in as much treble as you want. If you don't have soldering experience, this may not be a good project to start with.

    Keep in mind that players have differing tone preferences. Even though you have 2 people recommending a driver (S2012), there is no guaranteeing that you will like it as much as they do - your tone preferences could be different, and neither of them has used it in a Rumble 100. If you like the stock driver, but wish that it had more highs, the safe bet is to keep the stock driver and add a tweeter. All that said, chances are, you will really like the S2012.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
    bobcruz likes this.
  14. HaphAsSard

    HaphAsSard

    Dec 1, 2013
    Italia
    The Fane Sovereign 12-250TC actually has an even smaller whizzer cone inside the main whizzer:
    https://www.thomann.de/gb/fane_sovereign_12_250_tc.htm 11682653_800.
    https://www.thomann.de/gb/fane_sovereign_12_250_tc.htm
    https://www.thomannmusic.com/fane_sovereign_12_250_tc.htm

    What I don't like about it is that Fane seems to have forgotten to update the T/S parameters from the previous model, the 12-200LT - they're identical, which I take to be practically impossible once you change as little as one construction detail of a driver:
    SOVEREIGN 12-200LT
    SOVEREIGN 12-250TC
    Eh, I guess they should be in the ballpark, modelling-wise.

    Anyway, I think @Triad has some experience with this driver.
     
    AstroSonic likes this.
  15. AstroSonic

    AstroSonic Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2009
    rural New Mexico
    I'm afraid that I only looked over the published spec sheet (https://www.fane-international.com/downloads/Fane-Sovereign-12250TC-DS240316.pdf), which refers to the driver as a "Medium power twin cone model". The Fane website refers to to it as a triple cone. The TS parameters look the same except for Xmax, which is given as 3.5 mm on the Fane website and 5.25 mm on the spec sheet (dated 2016). BL, VC inductance and dcr are the same. Curious.
     
    HaphAsSard likes this.
  16. David Wheat

    David Wheat

    Apr 12, 2018
    Thanks for your all your detailed replies and advice -- I will cogitate!