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What’s the point in endorsing a product if you get no remuneration?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by atrapp, Jun 19, 2007.

  1. Stox


    Mar 18, 2005
    London UK
    Its great, I get SX basses at substantial discounts. :D

    I know its a win win situation...
  2. Baryonyx

    Baryonyx Inactive

    Jul 11, 2005
    Marathon Man
    It's like, Alembic always say Stanley paid for his basses. I don't doubt that, but it was him whom they presented a free 30th Anniversary Alembic! I really think he's earned it though for being such a brilliant player and doing so much for the Alembic name.
  3. atrapp

    atrapp Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2006
    Portland, OR
    One of my good friends\employees was the bass player for the 80's hair metal band Black "N" Blue. He was endorsed by Jackson, Hamer and someone else that I have forgotten. Black N Blue toured as an opening act for the likes of Aerosmith, Kiss, Triumph and several other "hair" bands of the 80's. These companies gave him instruments he never could have bought on an opening act salary. This sort of endorsement makes sense, how many folks bought gear because of what Pat played - who knows.
    But, this new deal of “I endorse ___________ Guitars,” if they aren’t giving you a bass, then the endorsement is a lot of hot air, like who cares – really. If they are not willing to put their money were their mouth is whup ding.

    Now I took a look at the Sadowsky "artist" page. Quite a lot of the folks seem to be IMHO "unknowns," like why would a company endorse a bass player from a cover band? However, if the company is doing nothing more than putting your name on a page of "Artists," there is no risk to them because they aren't really giving you anything other than bragging rights.

    The reallity of no pay endorsement (in the real world)...

    Overheard on a first date...
    she "so tell me about your bass"
    he "oh, its a "insert boutique brand name here" in fact I endorse them"
    she "oh really, so what does that mean?"
    he "well uh... they put my picture on their website."
    she "hmm... boy that's neat - what else?"
    he "nothing really"
    she "so do you watch basketball?"
  4. I think one of the main things overlooked here is repair work. One of the main perks of being an endorsing artist is getting all repairs and or replacements done for free. For a professional touring musician doing 150-250 shows a year free repairs come in REALLY handy. No matter how well gear is made, road wear happens.
  5. atrapp

    atrapp Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2006
    Portland, OR
    uh oh... moved to misc..
    thread is now dead - or is it?

  6. hardly... it's in the right spot IMO.

    I am an Endorsing Artist (need to update my profile) for Bee & Benavente Basses , Delano Pickups, and Bag End.

    All but Bag End is by my own declaration. I get nothing back but a little recognition from companies I love. I get a link back to my site from theirs... and gladly answer questions about the products as best I can when asked. I love the gear, maybe it is mostly bragging rights, so what.

    Do I pay full price? not quite... but I never pay full price for any negotiable priced stuff.

    Now Bag End is different. We were discussing a set of custom cabs (I used them exclusively in the 90s) and the Engineer asked is I wanted my info sent to the Artist Relations people. With them it's a contract. I get 35% off, the ability to buy direct and a lifetime warranty.

    Being on the manufacturers side, I've seen all the ignored emails of nobodies and somebodies begging for free stuff. Artist endorsement that requires stuff to still be bought means A LOT more than a bunch of free stuff given to beggers that don't dig the stuff anyway.
  7. atrapp

    atrapp Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2006
    Portland, OR
    There is no player list at Benavente, so when you say
    what does this mean, what if any official recognition is this?
  8. knuckle_head

    knuckle_head Commercial User

    Jul 30, 2002
    Owner; Knuckle Guitar Works & Circle K Strings
    Ever get something for nothing? How much did you think of that something?

    If I pay you you're my whore - if I discount we're equally invested.
  9. oldrocker

    oldrocker Supporting Member

    Feb 13, 2005
    Long Island, NY
    When you talk about endorsments, are you also talking about people who will wear tee shirts with a compan logo.

    Like wearing a Fender or Guiness shirt with no compensation?
  10. xwpx


    Mar 30, 2007
    the three companies i've been lucky to have endorse my bands have always given us a great discount...and free shirts...
  11. atrapp

    atrapp Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2006
    Portland, OR
    Nope I am talking about folks that have their names listed on web sites as "artist endorsees" for companies that claim not to give away gear. Seems like great marketing for the company and nothing but bragging rights for the player... of course the only people who might care are other bass players who are going to know that you got diddly squat as an endorsee... yet they are fervent\rabid supporters of said company.
  12. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    If you need to simplify it down to that and that's all that happened, I might agree with you.

    OTOH why do you look at endorsing without getting free gear as strictly a negative? Is that really all you can think of as far as that relationship might go? Endorsement = free gear or you're just bragging?

    The comment about who might care is amusing... if you endorse a bass, who besides other bassists do you really want to care?

    Way back in the dark ages, before Mike Tobias became a (bass) household name, he put people in touch with me to see his work in my area. No stores carried them and that was the most logical way to do it. Why did I do it? To help. Simple as that. Mike has always been a great guy so why wouldn't I do what I could to help him succeed? That success means he'l be around and for selfish reasons, if he's around I can get more of his products. I don't equate generating good will with being a chump.

    I endorse Brubaker basses, I own several that I purchased new or used. As a repeat customer I do get attractive pricing but I know as a small builder giving away gear isn't really an option. I wouldn't ask him to anyway. Over the years Kevin has become a friend and I like helping him when I can. If that's somehow looked upon negatively, that's on the viewer, not me.

    I don't ask for a cut on any sales even though I assist people, when time allows, by letting them check out my basses, taking them by the shop and answering questions as objectively as I can. If he needs something to show a customer because everything is already shipped I let him use my basses. He's taken them to trade shows and sent one to Bass Player magazine as a review subject. So do I get bragging rights for that? Not knowing what the reviewer would say before I sent it, it wasn't exactly a given.

    As far as artist pages, they just show who's using whose products. If you see someone on an artist page who uses something you're interested in, you can sometimes contact them. Will they be objective? Who knows. the funny thing though is that most bassists will talk about their gear ad nauseum with no thought of financial renumeration. Why?

    Maybe because they like what they have. If you don't feel as strongly, don't talk about the gear you use. Put some black tape over the logos.

    I honestly don't get the attitude.

    So what do I get? I already have some of the coolest basses I've ever played. Just like with Mike, if I help and he succeeds, more cool basses for me. A win-win for me.

    I think one other thing that usually missed in these discussions is that not everyone is depending on music related things as their main source of income. I know I'm not.
  13. atrapp

    atrapp Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2006
    Portland, OR
  14. somethin' like that.... donated the hair a couple years back though.
  15. atrapp

    atrapp Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2006
    Portland, OR
    Attitude? I think it's the attitude of thin skinned "bragging rights" endorsees that is annoying... go post a thread that questions Sadowsky and you'll get a bunch of "no name" endorsees attacking you like rabid dogs. Oh and before you launch into the "if you owned a" I own one and am not impressed. The bass is a fine Jazz bass copy and at the end of the day that's what it is, a copy.

    FYI by "no name" I mean you're not Marcus Miller - so get your ego back under control, not that 99% of Americans would know who Marcus Miller is.

    I bought two Roscoe’s this year, had some real issues with the first, posted about it on the Roscoe\TB page - did the folks attack me as if I was an idiot - no. They offered sage respectful advice. Does Roscoe do "bragging rights" endorsements, I have no clue, but the folks that play his basses are respectful helpful people who have no desire to attack anyone for not kowtowing to Keith Roscoe.

    I own a construction company and I make a fine living, I refuse payment at gigs, I would not take a free bass from any shop, I'd request that it be given to a young aspiring talent - I have given basses to young players. I do not do this as "holier than thou" deal, but because I want everyone who has a gift to have an opportunity to role with it.


    Love thy God with all thy heart, with all thy body and all thy mind.
  16. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    Okay, you both have attitudes.

    I don't own a Sadowsky so I doubt I'd launch into anything... but nice anticipation;)

    No attitude there.

    So you've reduced this down to bragging rights again.

    I'd think you'd have a more serene take on this, given the last sentence;)
  17. atrapp

    atrapp Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2006
    Portland, OR
    LOL... it was late.
  18. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
  19. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

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