# What are these scales called?

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by Garrett Mireles, Mar 29, 2003.

1. ### Garrett Mireles

Oct 26, 2002
USA, Kailua, Oahu
In this theory book I have (yes believe or not, i do own one of these things ) it shows these two scales, but I've never even seen them before:

E+

They go to any note, and they can be sharped too. What are these called?

The book doesn't have alot of explanations..it's like, "Here's the scale. This is what it looks like. Moving on.."

2. ### Wrong RobotGuest

Apr 8, 2002
Well Eº probably means E diminished, which would be a flat 3, 5 and double flat 7.

E+ could mean that it's a sharp 3rd....I don't know though, I've never seen these either.

no need to be embarassed to have a theory book, they are great things to have, how else you going to learn?

3. ### stephanie

Nov 14, 2000
Scranton, PA
I'm gonna take a stab at this...

Eº = E diminished scale
E+ = E augmented scale

I know there are 2 types of diminished scales: Whole to Half Step (W-H) and Half to Whole Steph (H-W)

For example: Eº written W-H, you would start on E and play the note 2 frets away (F#) then play the note 1 fret away (G). And continue on 2 fret-1 fret pattern. Eº H-W would be the opposite. You would start on E and play the note 1 fret away (F) then 2 frets away (G) and so on

I don't know much about the augmented scale but I think each note is a whole step away. E+ = E F# G# A# C D E

Hope this helps,
Stephanie

4. ### Wrong RobotGuest

Apr 8, 2002
yeah...it is probably the augmented scale, and each note probably is a whole step away.

5. ### Chris FitzgeraldStudent of LifeStaff MemberAdministrator

Oct 19, 2000
Louisville, KY

Kicking a bit of theoretical backside these days, are we sis?

6. ### Peter McFerrin

Jul 4, 2000
Valencia, CA 91354
That's a straight-up whole tone scale. I suppose I could see the whole tone scale being called the "augmented" scale due to it including an augmented triad; I've just never seen it referred to in such a manner.

7. ### moley

Sep 5, 2002
Hampshire, UK
Are you sure they're scales, not chords, Garrett?

If they're chord symbols:

Eº = E Diminished = 1 b3 b5 = E G Bb

E+ = E Augmented = 1 3 #5 = E G# B#

8. ### Chris FitzgeraldStudent of LifeStaff MemberAdministrator

Oct 19, 2000
Louisville, KY

More often, the chord symbol that refers to that scale includes the dominant designation: (X)7+ or 7#5.

9. ### TurockSupporting Member

Apr 30, 2000
Melnibone
Eº = E-gads, which is similiar in construction to the popular D-molished.
E+, that is just an incomplete algerbraical expression.

10. ### jazzbo

Aug 25, 2000
San Francisco, CA

11. ### BoplicitySupporting Member

"The Bass Grimoire" uses those two symbols, the little "zero" and the +. They are used with three-tone chords. The little zero denotes the status of the 3 and 5. It means change the 3 and 5 to flat 3 and flat 5. Thus a C chord with a C little zero is called C diminished with the formula 1 flat 3 flat five.

A + sign denotes the status of the five in a three- tone chord. The five would become a sharp five (or #5). It is called an augmented chord. A C+ would be C augmented and would be 1 3 #5.

Let's throw in a third symbol because a book using the little zero and the + will most likely use the - symbol also. The minus symbol used in a three-tone chord indicates that the 3 will be flat. So a C- chord will contain 1 flat 3 5. Such a chord is called a minor chord.

One may also see a little zero with a stroke through it. This is the half-diminished symbol. It is used in four-tone chords and denotes the status of the 3, 5, and 7. They become flat 3, flat 5 and flat seven. Thus a C chord modified with a little zero and a stroke through it will contain 1 flat 3 flat 5 and flat 7.

Better do one more. It is called the diminished seventh chord, referring to a four-tone chord. The symbol places the little zero ( no stroke) before the 7, but after the letter of the chord. It means the seven has a double flat. Thus C little zero 7 would be 1 flat 3 flat5 flat, flat 7.

Heck, let's do one more...the little pyramid symbol. In a four-tone chord, the little pyramid means the seven is unaltered, neither flat nor sharp. This chord when using these symbols is called a delta chord and a C pyramid would contain
1 3 5 7. If you take that same four tone chord but flat the 7, it is called a dominant chord. A C7 chord would contain 1 3 5 flat 7.

12. ### Garrett Mireles

Oct 26, 2002
USA, Kailua, Oahu
Wow, 10 replies and no sarcasm, I'm impressed.

Thanks alot guys

13. ### E.O.M.

Dec 7, 2001
Grand Rapids, MI
Isn't that the same as a Maj7 chord? As in CMaj7?

14. ### Phil SmithMr Sumisu 2 U

May 30, 2000
Peoples Republic of Brooklyn
Creator of: iGigBook for Android/iOS
Eº usually indicates E G Bb Db.

15. ### stephanie

Nov 14, 2000
Scranton, PA
I try my best ...Though I think I'm a little lost now

Just a minor correction (I think..): Wouldn't E+ = E G# B#?

16. ### Chris FitzgeraldStudent of LifeStaff MemberAdministrator

Oct 19, 2000
Louisville, KY

As a matter of fact, it would. Congratulations! You just busted THREE CARD MOLEY, who is now sentenced to come up with 17 different names for each mode of the whole tone scale.

And you thought confession was bad....

17. ### moley

Sep 5, 2002
Hampshire, UK
D'oh!! You got me on that one. I dunno how that one got through the net. I'll go correct it.

18. ### moley

Sep 5, 2002
Hampshire, UK
Well that depends on which school of thought you subscribe to regarding dim chords.

Some say dim = dim7 = 1 b3 b5 bb7
Some say dim = 1 b3 b5, and dim7 = 1 b3 b5 bb7

19. ### Phil SmithMr Sumisu 2 U

May 30, 2000
Peoples Republic of Brooklyn
Creator of: iGigBook for Android/iOS
I'm making this distinction:

Eº - I've haven't seen this notation refer to a diminished triad.

20. ### Chris FitzgeraldStudent of LifeStaff MemberAdministrator

Oct 19, 2000
Louisville, KY
That's the symbol for a diminished triad in traditional (legit) theory terminology. It's actually quite useful, as it makes it easier to distinguish between the triad and the seventh chord.