what do i need to do to my rig to get the sound i want?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by rainonmenow, Apr 14, 2003.

  1. I play through an older Ibanez Soundgear 5 string (I'm not really proud of it, but I can't afford anything else currently) through an Ampeg SVP PRO pre amp, through a Carvin DCM 600 watt power amp, through an Ampeg 6x10.

    My problem is, is that I'm not getting a loud enough sound that I'm able to manipulate enough to get it where I want it. I can't get any low end without having to worry about clipping out my power amp, and I'm afraid of that anyways because I've already had problems with my speakers from too much low end that has resulted in me having to replace some of them. Now I'm all careful about my rig, but I dont have very much control over my sound at all.

    I love my pre amp, and I don't think it has anything to do with that. I've had everything serviced recently and I know that it's all in perfect working order. My power amp starts to clip out when things get too loud for it, so that would make me think I need more power/headroom, but it seems so weird because 600 watts seems like plenty.

    I'm just gonna leave it at that...I really don't know what to do about it. I just know that I'm not getting the control or volume I want out of it.

    If anyone could offer any suggestions or information, I'd appreciate it. thanks

  2. Trevorus


    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    I have a crown ce1000 power amp. It's max is 1100 watts, and it has built in compressor units that protect your speakers. It also has pretection circuits from bad input, bad speaker connections and all that. It is a GREAT amp. I can pump some pretty hot signal into it without any problems. I'd say replace your power amp. It's all about headroom. Just give yourself some room on all tolerances if possible. Oh, and upgrade your bass. I hear everybody come into my work talking about a crappy bass they have. It's always an Ibanez soundgear. Work as much as you have to, but dump that bass.
  3. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    Your problem is simple: EQ!!!

    If you can't get enough volume out of a 600 watt amp into that cabinet and have been blowing speakers, then you are doing something with the EQ to cause the problem. Removing a lot of midrange and pumping up the bass is a likely culprit.

    Or else you are just playing too darn loud :D
  4. emjazz

    emjazz Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2003
    Boston, MA
    You should think about getting an outboard pre such as a sadowski, Aguilar DB950 or something of that sort. That way you can get some added volume and some eqing options. Otherwise I'd say get a job and a new poweramp.
  5. Sounds to me like you are trying to make your speakers do something they just won't do. Probably the simplest way to get more bottom end would be to add a 1x15 cab of sorts. good luck
  6. redneck2wild


    Nov 27, 2002
    Memphis, TN
    Are you looking for tone that is very Bass heavy?
    Is the amp a stereo amp or is a single channel amp?
    Are you playing a 5 string or do you D-Tune?

    Ampeg cabinets usually don't produce deep lows very well. I think the 610 produces an A (55Hz) OK but anything lower than that can not be reproduced very well. That means that the low notes on the E string (below A) are not produced correctly. If you are D-Tuned or are playing a 5 string you are in even worse shape.
    The best you can do with the Ampeg cabinet is cut your Lows and boost your Mids to get more volume.

    You may want to look into Biamping, with the Lows going to another cabinet (maybe a PA subwoofer).
    If you already have a Stereo amp, it would just require a crossover (and another Cabinet). Rolls makes a cheap 2 way crossover (SX-21) that works well for Bass. This would help protect your current cabinet (frequencies above the crossover point would only go to the Ampeg) and give you good lows (no mud in the low channel as frequencies below the crossover point will not be going to the sub).
  7. 1) Is your amp running in bridged mode (someone already asked, I just wanted to reiterate)….? This will make a difference.

    2) Are all 6 speakers working, and phased properly? This will also make a difference.

    3) Is your cabinet near any boundaries, such as the floor, a wall, a corner? Sometimes people place cabinets on tables or chairs, the result of no boundaries = less low end.

    If you can answer yes to all of these, I would think that 600 watts and 6x10’s should be plenty for any reasonably sized stage or practice room (assuming that’s the application for your bass rig.)

    Oh, BTW – if your Soundgear is affordable, plays alright, works properly – you should be proud of it, regardless of what others say. It’s your axe and there’s no need for anyone to be dissin' it. IMHO
  8. Planet Boulder

    Planet Boulder Hey, this is a private residence...man Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2001
    6,482 feet above sea level
    I once had impure thoughts. Oh, and I pluck my ear hair.
    As an aside, it should be noted that a 600-watt Carvin is typically going to ACTUALLY produce less output than many other brands. I know because I had the R600 and it was blown away by my TE AH200 (200 watts).

    I have a Carvin FET1000 which, while it is QUITE loud, is not as loud as my Trace Elliot 500 watt power amp.

    Carvin tends to overrate their wattage from my experience. I'd recommend getting a new power amp (either a different brand, like QSC, or a much higher rated Carvin).
  9. basss

    basss Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2001
    I used to use a DCM600 with my aggie DB659. I had problems with clipping too; even at not-so-loud volumes. I sold it and bought a Stewart world 1.2- problem solved.
  10. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    An outboard preamp will NOT make an amp louder.

    The guy already has active EQ on his bass, three band shelving EQ as well as a graphic on his preamp and you think he needs more EQ options?

  11. emjazz

    emjazz Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2003
    Boston, MA
    I'm not saying he needs more eq. Something like the Aguilar DB924 will give him more boost to his signal.
  12. BruceWane


    Oct 31, 2002
    Houston, TX
    Well, his power amp is already clipping, so boosting the input is not needed or really even an option.

    Could be that he's getting all he's gonna get out of that cabinet..........the low frequency reponse of it isn't all that great (-3db at 50hz or so) especially hitting it with a 5 string. But here's the approach I would take..........

    First, get a bigger power amp. Around 1000-1200 watts bridged @ 8 ohms should do. Try using this in your current rig and see if it gives you enough headroom and volume. If it does, great - sell the 600 watt amp and be happy.

    If it doesn't give you that which you seek, get a crossover and a decent subwoofer, like a JBL PA cabinet or an SWR Big Ben. Get a crossover, run the highs to the 600 watt amp/6x10, run the lows to the big amp/subwoofer.

    If THAT doesn't do it, you need to have a chat with the rest of your band about excessive volume.
  13. Thank you all very much.

    I think with all of these replies together, it's the best help I have recieved so far in my search....for...help...

    Anyways, I want a sound that is very bass heavy, but not muddy....I play in a three piece, and I'd like to fill in the bottom while still being able to stand out enough for someone to be able to distinguish the notes from one another.

    I think I will start off by purchasing a better power amp and then see about getting more of a sub like maybe a fifteen or two and a crossover.

    Thanks again.