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What is midbass?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Doodaddy, Feb 8, 2005.


  1. Doodaddy

    Doodaddy Supporting Member

    Jan 11, 2005
    West Monroe, LA
    I'm curious as to what frequency range yall consider "midbass".

    I will be doing a bass rig soon and I've seen where some people have said that X sub doesn't have any midbass. Well, where does midbass start to you?
     
  2. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    depends. somewhere around 120 to 200
     
  3. Doodaddy

    Doodaddy Supporting Member

    Jan 11, 2005
    West Monroe, LA
    Well, my original plans for a cab wsa a 2x15 cab. But after reading around a bit, people complained on the lack of midbass in them.

    I occaisionally play that high, but I'm not needing a flat response up there though. I just need to hear it. I think when I DO play that high, the mains will start to pick me up anyways. Thanks for your help.
     
  4. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    Midbass also contains overtones for some of your lower notes on the bass. Things ranging from the G on the E string to the E on the D string. And partials for some of the lowest notes, and for some of the higher notes.

    If your sound is scooped in that area, your bass will lack a lot of oomph.
     
  5. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I would have said 150 to 300Hz. I call this the "Low Mids". Is this a geographical difference in terminologies? I've never heard the expression "Midbass".
     
  6. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    i've really only heard it a few times. usually people mean low mids, but some companies use that term, mostly car audio that i've seen.
     
  7. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Midbass is what is produced above the sub woofer and below the midrange. The subwoofer band is usually considered to cease at 80 Hz, while midrange traditionally starts at 500 Hz. Thus midbass is 80 to 500 Hz, give or take.
     
  8. Doodaddy

    Doodaddy Supporting Member

    Jan 11, 2005
    West Monroe, LA
    Could you elaborate a bit more please? I'm fairly new with the technicalities of bass playing.

    And yeah, I'm coming from a very well educated car audio background, so midbass was the only discription for what I was thinking of...... :bag:
     
  9. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    there's an eq thread linked in the new faq sticky that kind of goes into that. the idea is even though the fundamental tones of the notes on a bass guitar are below those frequencies, the strings are producing tons of upper harmonics, some of which fall into that range. depending upon the bass, the upper harmonics may account for more of the overall volume of a given note than the fundamental tone. lacking in the 80 - 500 Hz range will take most of the "power" "boom" "thump" "meat" or whatever you wnt to call it out of your sound.
     
  10. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    I'd've said about 150 to 850 hz to cover low mids and high mids.
     
  11. Doodaddy

    Doodaddy Supporting Member

    Jan 11, 2005
    West Monroe, LA
    That makes sense. I'm guessing harmonic distortion..... to an extent?

    It's starting to clear up. I'm used to crossing over subs at like 70hz and using a nice component set for the rest of the rest of the frequencies.

    So, I'm guessing the 2x15 route isn't a great idea?

    1x15 + 2x10 sound better? I'm wanting to feel myself pretty easily while covering the full spectrum of what I'm playing.
     
  12. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    nope, not harmonic distortion, actual harmonics. think of it this way, when you hear an instrument play an "A" 440, you can tell what instrument it is. why? because the instrument isnt just producing 440 Hz. if it did it would be a sine wave and you wouldnt be able to tell one instrument from another. instead the instrument is producing a wide range of frequencies, mostly harmonics of one kind or another.

    as far as bass amplifiers go, some are big into biamped rigs. i'm not. a good pa system sounds fantastic biamped, triamped, or even quadamped. however, the speakers used in those pas are optimized for the frequency bands they'll be getting. bass guitar 2x10's are capable of producing a very wide range of frequencies, and so are 1x15's. running both of them full range will generally result in a fuller sound. For a less "colored" sound there are some cabinet companies making really good multi-way enclosures with good passive crossovers and several drivers. They won't get as pristine, uncolored, and full range sound as a really good pa, but sometimes thats a good thing. having run sound i can tell you that there's nothing more annoying as a bass guitar rig putting out tons of energy in the last octave when i cant control it. (ok, a stupid loud guitar player is worse - :D ). I'd much rather have them use an amp that doesnt put out the lowes lows and take a direct line into the pa so i can produce that last octave for them, and have control over it so the gig doesnt turn into a foghorn brigade.
     
  13. Doodaddy

    Doodaddy Supporting Member

    Jan 11, 2005
    West Monroe, LA
    Well, for the most part, I'm trying to hear myself over one of those stupid guitarist. :scowl:

    That makes total sense. I've always wondered where tonal characteristics came from. Totally opened my eyes.

    When you say run the 1x15 and the 2x10 full range, I'm guessing you mean no crossovers? Wouldn't that cause problems due to the different frequency responses from both the cabs? :meh:
     
  14. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Actually the different tonal characteristics is the reason it works so well. The big speaker does what the little one cant, and vice versa. Overall they compliment each other. Try it.
     
  15. Lowtonejoe

    Lowtonejoe Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Richland, WA
    Get a couple of Bag End 15's and you won't be lacking any midbass. I have been considering doing exacly this for a while now.

    2 12's are a great way to go too.

    But 115 + 210 is very common and should keep you covered.

    :)

    Joe.
     
  16. jondog

    jondog

    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    I use a pair of PA speakers that I call my subs but a pro sound guy I know calls them "mid-bass bins." They have JBL K145s in them, so they probably aren't doing a whole lot under 40hz. I usually crossover at 125hz, maybe I should try going as high as 500hz? The JBLs are rated up to 2500hz but I'm pretty sure I don't want to go that high.
     
  17. Doodaddy

    Doodaddy Supporting Member

    Jan 11, 2005
    West Monroe, LA
    I'm really interested in the 15 and 2x10 combo. If I decide to go this way, I'll have a thread about tuning for the right response.

    There has been a local amp come up for sale I *might* be interested in. An older and very used fender head a 6x12 Sonic cab that seems to be in good shape. I'm going to play through it one day and see if I like it or not.

    He wants 600 for it, but from the dents on the head and the fact that I have to start the fan by hand; I don't want to give any more than 400 for it. Any suggestions?
     
  18. Lowtonejoe

    Lowtonejoe Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Richland, WA
    6x12???? :eyebrow:

    Good God!!!! :eek:

    Fans are cheap.

    But if the rig does nothing for you don't buy it. Wait for the one...the right one.

    :)

    Joe.
     
  19. Doodaddy

    Doodaddy Supporting Member

    Jan 11, 2005
    West Monroe, LA
    Yeah, I figured it would be about like changing a fan in a computer. I get bang out the dents in the head and paint it too.

    I played through it a LONG time ago and I had just started out playing. I didn't know what to look for in an amp or anything, so I don't want to base it on that time alone.

    I have a gig this Friday night and I'm going to see if I can play through it for that night and see. I remember the blurred vision being the most fun. :D
     
  20. Lowtonejoe

    Lowtonejoe Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Richland, WA
    Well, good luck man! And remember to post the results of your test ride (if you get to).

    :)

    Joe.