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What scale is this?

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by Vorago, Aug 2, 2005.


  1. Vorago

    Vorago (((o)))

    Jul 17, 2003
    Antwerp, Belgium
    Just stumbled across this while playing bass:

    C C# E F G G# B C


    Does this scale have a name?
     
  2. 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 7
     
  3. WillPlay4Food

    WillPlay4Food Now With More Metal! Staff Member Supporting Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Orbiting HQ
    Phrygian is 1, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7

    This scale is like phrygian, but with a raised 3rd and 7th.

    Almost as if you took Dorian, but instead of b3, b7, you used b2, b6.

    Would this scale be considered Spanish Phrygian? I think Spanish Phrygian only raises the 3rd though, not the 7th.
     
  4. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    If you renamed the C# as Db and the G# as Ab, then you might have a scale :D

    It's not any scale or mode I recognize though, too many large interval jumps!

    Db -> E is a minor third
    Ab -> B is a minor third

    It MIGHT be some altered scale the jazz guys would recognize. It's like a C major scale altered with a b2 and b6 :confused:
     
  5. fraublugher

    fraublugher

    Nov 19, 2004
    ottawa, ontario, canada
    music school retailer
    if you drop the first note it's half/whole diminished
     
  6. Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

    Alvaro Martín Gómez A. TalkBass' resident Bongo + cowbell player

    Frankly, I can't find this scale's name, but here are some things to think about it:

    -The correct spelling is C-Db-E-F-G-Ab-B-C

    -If it had a B flat instead of a B natural, it would be a phrygian dominant scale.

    -The minor second interval between I and II plus the augmented second between II and III give this scale a typical arabic flavor.

    -The minor second between I and II suggests that this scale has a phrygian or locrian character.

    -Having this scale an augmented second interval between VI and VII, the second tetrachord also reminds of an harmonic minor scale.

    The question hasn't been answered but hope this helps, anyway.
     
  7. Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

    Alvaro Martín Gómez A. TalkBass' resident Bongo + cowbell player

    This is a very common mistake that I always emphasize to my students not to commit. You're right: That interval (the same for both examples) SOUNDS as a minor third, but this isn't a minor third. This is an augmented second. When you spell intervals, you should think of the natural (not altered) notes as the first name of the interval and the alterations are the last name. The first name is what gives an interval the correct spelling: Moving from D to E is a second, same as moving from A to B, regardless of the alterations. You have a second here, not a third. Now the last name (the alterations) is what gives the interval its character (minor, major, augmented -this case-, diminished, perfect).

    That's why spelling the scale as C-C# or G-G# is wrong. Normally, a scale is a succession of seconds. But C-C# isn't a (minor) second. Again, it SOUNDS like that, but scales shouldn't be spelled by the way the intervals sound. This leads to lots of mistakes. If you remove the alterations, you'll notice that moving from C to C is an unison, so C-C# is an augmented unison, which is supposedly a wrong spelling for a scale. C-Db sounds the same, but this is a real minor second (correct spelling).

    Again, this is a very common mistake that I always try to clarify to anybody who "falls" in it. Hope this helps.
     
  8. Correlli

    Correlli

    Apr 2, 2004
    New Zealand
    That is the Double Harmonic Scale,

    which is said to be a Diatonic Major scale,

    hence the maj 3rd.



    C Db E F G Ab B

    or as mentioned...

    1 b2 3 4 5 b6 7

    Just some other points of interest.

    Diatonic Major C D E F G A B

    Melodic Minor C D Eb F G A B

    Harmonic Minor C D Eb F G Ab B

    D. Harmonic Minor C Db E F G Ab B
     
  9. WillPlay4Food

    WillPlay4Food Now With More Metal! Staff Member Supporting Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Orbiting HQ
  10. Correlli

    Correlli

    Apr 2, 2004
    New Zealand
    That's weird. I was just at that website to check my facts!
     
  11. WillPlay4Food

    WillPlay4Food Now With More Metal! Staff Member Supporting Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Orbiting HQ
    It was the first result I got when I googled double harmonic minor. :)

    That page says the scale is double harmonic major though (I edited my post).
     
  12. Correlli

    Correlli

    Apr 2, 2004
    New Zealand
    I did the same thing.


    Google strikes again!

    I use google to search Talkbass as well.

    seems to give better results, being google is so Huge.

    syntax is: search_topic site:www.talkbass.com