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What should I add to my rig? (Metal)

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by keepmusicevil, Jan 29, 2003.

  1. keepmusicevil


    Jul 1, 2002
    San Diego
    SPECS/EQUIPMENT- GK 800 rb, Ampeg 410 w/ horn, Beringer AUTOCOM PRO MDX1400(compressor/limiter), Jackson 4-string KBX (with passive EMG’s). Fingerstyle and I run no effects.

    STYLE – METAL (Thrash to Death)

    GOAL – To ‘cut through the mix’ a little more while still retaining that ‘bass’ sound.
    What would you recommend to add to my existing rig? I have two spaces left.

    SECONDARY GOAL – Try to incorporate a fretless into a metal sound. Not for sure on this one but I want to experiment.

    Rack EQ
    Behringer ultra curve pro (Digital vs. Analog, Do I need to go digital, or stick with analog?)
    “ ultra graph pro geq3102 (Do I need 2 bands? Do I need 31 separate eq options? I am not too into constantly ‘tweaking’ with settings.)

    Rack Power Conditioner
    For good measure

    Rack Multi Effects
    Behringer virtualizer pro ( does it work for bass? How well?)

    Am interested in you opinions on incorporating fretless to metal. What tonal challenges would I encounter?

    Thanks in advance for your input. Feel free to answer any and all. Please no "Behringer sucks" comments. Back it up with examples. If you are in a band mention it.

  2. keepmusicevil


    Jul 1, 2002
    San Diego
    SMASH - Also check out Carpathian Forest(strange old brew) or Sadus for fretless work.

    I was wondering if the flatwounds and the fretless diminish volume in anyway?

    Why did you choose a fretless to play metal?
  3. A compressor like the Behringer MDX 2200 ($89) will help you attain more aparent volume, add punch and sustain, while helping you to cut through the mix. Works fer me.
  4. keepmusicevil


    Jul 1, 2002
    San Diego

    An oversite on my part.....I have the Beringer AUTOCOM PRO MDX1400

    That is a two channel compressor. I do enjoy the added punch from it, but am torn as to how much to use it since I lose.....expression. The added tones from hard vs. soft plucking.

    Keep 'em coming!
  5. keepmusicevil


    Jul 1, 2002
    San Diego
  6. about the compressor issue with hard vs. soft plucking with you, i have a two channel compressor, the dbx 266xl, and stereo couple the channels and it doesnt effect the way i choose to pluck the strings. its all about you bass that causes it, or if you set you settings differently.

    about the eq thing too, i use a behringer ultra pro peq 2200, hehe, funny name but it is a damn good eq for the money.
  7. You may find a BBE sonic maximizer a good and easy fit for your rig. They tighten up your tone, add punch, balance out signal levels and really help to sit your overall tone well up front in the mix. Punch and slice w/o sounding "hyped" or artificial.
  8. redneck2wild


    Nov 27, 2002
    Memphis, TN
    Years ago I used a small Marshall Guitar combo amp (I think it had a single 10" speaker) along with a Bass rig (4x10 & 1x18) to get a sound that would cut through. The Bass rig was set to a Clean bass tone biamped with heavy lows. The Guitar combo was set to full overdrive (Pre Gain all the way up) with the lows cut back. The combination of the two mixes resulted with a Deep Bass tone with distorted harmonics in the midrange and crisp highs on top. You can get away with a small overdriven amp to give additional tone to your existing Bass rig.
    You may ask one of your guitarists if they have a small combo amp that you can borrow to test.
  9. BryanB

    BryanB Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    You need a good equalizer more than anything else in my opinion. I would not recommend the Behringer. Poor quality eqs like this one add phase distortion. Phase distortion occurs because the signal after the filter is out of phase with the original signal. This causes loss of bottom, and muddy mids. Also the signal looses punch and definition. This problem is very apparent in bass frequencies but can effect the higher ranges too. In addition to phase distortion, a poor quality eq will also raise the signal floor significantly. This means more hiss in the signal which you will try to remove by lowering the highs, which kills the tone. A bad eq will actually do more to hurt your sound than help it.

    A really good inexpensive eq is the Raven Labs True Blue EQ. (About $220.00) It will preserve most of the signal phase. (All filters do some phase distortion, but the best stuff can really minimize it.) This eq tends to be subtle. So I only recommend it if you are overall happy with your sound and just need some tweeks. If you want to blow the wad on the best available, buy a Klark-Teknik DN360 for about $1300.

    Yeah, the Behringer comp sucks. Try an FMR RNC 1173 for about $175. You can't beat it for the money. Sexier still is the Empirical Labs Distressor for about $1200, or the Crane Song Trakker for about $3500.
  10. PollyBass

    PollyBass ******

    Jun 25, 2001
    Shreveport, LA
    Cut thru? try some highs..... even though it might sound like a little "much", it almost always "Rounds out" the tone. And of course, some mids of some sort will do wonders.
  11. keepmusicevil


    Jul 1, 2002
    San Diego
    All right! Now this is the kind of answers I'm looking for.

    BFunk - I DO need a good EQ. I have bypassed the compressor and must say that I can not notice a big loss of bottom end. I play mainly with two distorted guitars and have not noticed a lack of punch when using the compressor. I'm sure it is not the best out there, but for the money, I think its great. Thanks for your input. Whats your thought on the BBE Sonic Maximizer? I have not heard one myself, and some say good things, others bad.
  12. Mild overdrive works very well for me... no grit or crunch just a little bit of a dynamic pregain boost to give me more presence. It's a hell of allot better than clicking or using too much top end eq, in my opinion.
  13. BryanB

    BryanB Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    The compressor is not likely to cause a loss of bottom or punch. I was referring to an eq for that. What a poor compressor will do is cause a loss of highs, and compression artifacts like pumping or breathing. But what you happens in your case is largely going to depend on how you use your compressor.

    I am not a fan of the SM. I think it can be useful for a PA mix, but only in limited circumstances. You are better off learning how to use crossovers, eqs, and compressors correctly first. Then add other signal processors like this one to tweek an already good sound.
  14. I was a big fan of the BBE for as good long while. It will had sparkle and "slice" to your top end helping you cut through. A brand new set of strings will sort of sound the same. You can always try goosing your 4 Khz range for more of that "roundwound" top; this is what the "definition" control on a BBE does as well. What a Sonic Maximizer will do that a ordinary EQ won't is to balance the rate at which you hear the the highs and the lows coming at you. High frequencies travel faster, hitting you first, low frequencies are a tad more sluggish, leading to a "blurry" sound in some cheap systems. The overall effect is one of clarity, definition, a punchier bottom that is noticably tighter as well. it is a real "fix-it" box and doesn't add distortion like an aural exciter. I have tried to wean myself off mine because I believe a properly designed and set-up system will give you many of these same results. Almost all studios love these boxes however, so they are worth considering, especially if you want to sit better in the mix.
    Read more here; http://www.bbesound.com/technologies/BBE_HDS/
  15. Mike


    Sep 7, 2000
    You need a Tech 21 Sans Amp DI, man. I was never able to TRULY hear myself until I finally cracked down and bought one. It finally supplied me with great, rounded tone, cut and clarity. I refer to it as God's little gift box to bass players but since you're into keeping music evil, you may refer to it as anything you like. I'm sure Beelzabub will love you all the same. :D

    www.bassnw.com usually has them at $169. It's the best price I've found. ONe of those MXR boxes might work too but I've never messed with one.
  16. Jeff Moote

    Jeff Moote Supporting Member

    Oct 11, 2001
    Beamsville, ON, Canada
    Mad Sub, do you still have your BBE? Looking to sell it?
  17. keepmusicevil


    Jul 1, 2002
    San Diego

    Thanks all for your input.
  18. Perhaps the question you should ask is, "what shoud I remove from my rig?"
    In my experience, more effects, compression, and other stuff added to a bass signal only degrades and muddles the sound. I would start with just your bass and your amp with all of the controls flat and see what you get. Avoid the smiley face EQ if you want to cut. Play with precision and articulation. Play near the bridge pickup. Use new strings. Don't waste your money on a rack full of gear because you'll often find that the best setting is BYPASS.
  19. keepmusicevil


    Jul 1, 2002
    San Diego
    Since posting this question, I have been playing around with settings and such, and am starting to believe that 'less is more'.

    I am still pretty into putting a fretless into action. Any opinions on that?

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