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What to do, what to do... (speaker cab conundrum)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by ss81, Sep 1, 2005.


  1. ss81

    ss81

    May 29, 2005
    Maybe you guys can give me some advice here, I'm really not sure what to do. I have this peavey t-max head that (if my understanding is correct) puts out 500 watts at 2 ohms, 350 at 4 ohms and I'm not sure how much at 8 ohms. I've been playing it through an 8 ohm 410tvx cab rated at 350 watts RMS and 700 watts peak, and it was brought to my attention in one of my previous posts that this might be too much resistance for my amp and might be hurting it. I just found a nice 4 ohm 210tx cab rated at 175 watts RMS and 350 watts peak, and I was wondering if this cab would be able to handle the t-max both on its own (practicing at home) and also combined with the 8 ohm 410tvx during band practice and gigs? Or the other possibility I was floating around was buying the 210tx, getting rid of the 410tvx (as much as it pains me because it's a great cab) and replacing it with another 4 ohm 210 cab or a 115 cab. Decisions, decisions. What do you guys think, is this 210 cab going to fit the bill power-wise? I hope this makes sense, I'm finding the whole thing kind of complicated myself. Any advice would really be much appreciated :).
     
  2. A higher speaker impedence isn't going to hurt an amp
     
  3. I don't think there is any was to 'hurt' am amp by using a higher ohm cab (like an 8ohm cab). Your amp will just not be allowed to put out as much power as it was designed to safely produce. The easiest solution for this is to just add another 8ohm cab for larger gigs... that will increase your volume due to more air being moved by the additional cab, and also due to your amp producing more wattage at the lower 4ohm level.

    Edit: A smaller (210 vs. 410) cab, even with more power going into it (all other things being relatively equal), will not be as loud as a 410 with less wattage. If you don't want to haul around another 8ohm 410, you might try a somewhat higher quality 410 in a 4ohm version. Also... nice use of the word 'conundrum' :D
     
  4. until.tomorrow

    until.tomorrow Guest

    May 5, 2003
    US - Milwaukee
    If your looking at getting down to 4 ohms and are thinking about a 210 you should do the following. Get a 210 that is 8ohms also and then connect it to your 8 ohm 410 in parallel in order to get your speaker load to a 4 ohm.
     
  5. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    like's been said, a "higher impedance speaker" wont hurt a solid state amp. for details go up to the faq sticky near the top of the amps forum, in it you'll find a link to an explination of ohms and impedance.

    the 210 will be ok even though the amp is higher powered than it's rated for. just dont crank it and listen to how the speakers are doing. BTW, generally, the only wattage handling rating youshould pay attention to on cabs is the RMS rating. I'ts cool to know the peak rating, but that's no the bast way to match cabs to amps. However, Many times it helps to use an amp with a good deal of power for headroom, so amps that put out more than the speaker's RMS power are OK. Most of the time you're only using 10% of the amp's watts, even when you're playing on the loud side.
     
  6. I'm not sure about this... but a lot of people do it. If you have an 8ohm 210 and an 8ohm 410 combined, then both cabs will be getting the same amount of power... which would seem to overpower the 210 and underpower the 410... seems like that wouldn't be the best solution.... either a 4ohm 410 or two 8ohm 210's would seem to be more balanced.
     
  7. Good point, but depends. If he got a 8 ohm 210 rated to handle as much power as the 410, similar efficiency, its good to go. The 210 drivers will each be getting twice the power the 410 gets, so its a little weird.

    another setup would be 4 ohm 410 with a 8 ohm 210, the 410 gets 2 times the power, but has 2times the speakers, so its like a 610 when you run together, all speakers get equal power. You can use the 410 for smaller gigs, its still 4 ohms so you get lots of power out of the amp. The 2 together is like 2.667 ohms, so its above the 2 ohm min of the amp.

    The Tmax is probably putting out around 250W at 8 ohms, give or take.

    My problem with the proposed setup is the 210 is a 4 ohm cab, so it will actually get twice the power of the 8 ohm 410 he's got. And the 210 is rated to handle LESS power than the 410, when it gets more.

    The amp will drive the 210 with plenty of headroom which is good, but the amp could possibly blow it if he plays really loud, likes a "crunchy" sound that masks distortion so he can't tell when he's overdriving the speaker. Have to listen closely for "clean" sound when amp power is higher than speaker power handling.

    Randy
     
  8. I did a thread on that idea a while back to get some feedback on the idea... that really makes sense to me (assuming you have a head that runs safely at 2 ohms)... you would have almost full power with both cabs, and (assuming relatively similar sound profile and SPL) a very balanced sound between the 210 and 410. For small gigs, you would be running the head into a small 8ohm cab, for moderate to large gigs, the head would run at 4ohms into the 410, and then for the mega-momo gigs, you would put out the full wump at a little over 2ohms into both cabs. :bassist:
     
  9. I agree, just get the impedance/power handling balance right and you've got a pretty good all round setup. 2 410's is pretty darn heavy to haul around, a 410 doesn't always quite cut it... nice compromise.

    Randy
     
  10. ss81

    ss81

    May 29, 2005
    Thanks a lot for all the responses, they've all been very helpful. I guess i'd ideally like to stick with a 210 and 410 setup, I don't want to get rid of the 410 and it would be great to have the 210 to have a more easily transportable option. Unfortunately, my 410 is 8 ohms and every 210tx I've seen so far is rated at 4 ohms. I think I've heard that you can rewire an 8 ohm cab to 4 ohms, but I don't believe it's possible to rewire 4 ohms to 8. Does anyone know if peavey produces the 210tx or txv in 8 ohm models? I kind of want to stick with the Peavey tx or tvx line, I've shopped around and these have definately sounded by far the best to my ears (within my price range).
     
  11. You heard wrong. Not possible to cut the impedance in half or double it. It changes by a factor of 4. (4 ohms => 16 or 1 ohm) (8 ohms =>2 or 32 ohms).

    randy
     
  12. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    actually, the 8 ohm 210 + 8 ohm 410 is a really popular and useful combination. I used one for years. Sure, the drivers in the 210 get hit 2x as hard as the ones in the 410, but overall the cabs usually end up sounding about equal. It makes for a nice rig. bring the 210 to small gigs, the 410 to medium, and both to large.
     
  13. keep the 410 and get a tvx 412 :) :bassist: you will love it. although you back will hate you, along with you band mates :cool: than you will run you head down to 2.6 ohms and will almost get full power.
    as you can see my gear I am sorta in the same boat and would like to get a 2 ohm load to my head
     
  14. I agree a lot of people do it, and it probably sounds OK, but I would think this would be much better using the ohmage combination described above (and would even be 'better' when using the cabs separately, given that the amp would 'adjust' its wattage given the size of the cab being used). I have a feeling the reason it's been used so much in the past has to do with most transistor amps not being capable of running at a 2ohm load until relatively recently, and a general lack of knowledge about power and ohms among most players :D
     
  15. ss81

    ss81

    May 29, 2005
    So there's no way to rewire my 8ohm 410 to 4 ohms? That sucks... I guess the next best thing for me to do is find an 8 ohm 210. Like I said, I've really loved the sound of most peavey cabs I've played through (even though the salesmen have thought I'm crazy) but they don't seem to have manufactured any 210 cabs at 8 ohms. Can anybody suggest another good 8 ohm 210 cab for $200 or less?
     
  16. An Avatar 210 Delta is the closest decent new cabinet to the $200 price that I know of.It would probably stack with your Peavey pretty well and they sound at least as good as the Peaveys 210.Not quite as much low end but a real nice midrange punch.