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What were you thinking??

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by gustobassman, May 17, 2011.

  1. gustobassman

    gustobassman I'm only here for the after party.. Supporting Member

    Mar 31, 2011
    Sandy Eggo
    Yes, i asked this of two of my bandmembers this weekend.

    Explanation - We are in the process of recording our new disc, 13 songs, have use of a pro studio, and some actual intirest from some investors. We did bass and drums last week and each member was given a copy (including crappy scratch vox and guitar) to take notes on. We all made it very clear that this stuff is supposed to stay in-house, that it's not anywhere ready to be released.

    Fast forward to this past saturday and i have quite a few people come up to me at our gig and tell me that "the new cd sounds great!!" ..... what...?? Not that we are the best songwriters, but we all know how people can rip off music and worse if not copyrighted, etc. Not only that, this has some of the worst vocals i've heard, and the guitar is scratch. really crappy scratch guitar.

    Turns out 2 of the.. let me say it nicely.. not so experienced members, had decided to make copies and pass them to friends. I'm a firm believer in not putting out product until it is FINISHED because we all take pride in what we do, and we all want it to sound as best as possible. From the engineer to the vocalist, we all want it to sound good. That and it's so easy to post anything online someone could hear the crappy stuff and be turned away to never listen again.

    So.. again my question to them was... What were you thinking???

    Anyone else have to deal with this? :rolleyes:
  2. Thinking! What leads you to believe they were thinking?
  3. jaywa


    May 5, 2008
    Iowa City, IA
    Unfortunately, it's the mindset of the times. Get something out there ASAP, even if it's sh*t. Just get it out there.

    I personally blame the computer/software industry more than anything else for making this the standard operating procedure. Push cr*p out there on the market before the next guy and if it doesn't work, no big deal, we'll just fix it in the next version.

    The "right time" is always and only "right now", and fast is always better than good. Delayed gratification is no longer a concept many people can even conceive of, much less put into practice.
  4. Tracebassplayer

    Tracebassplayer Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light.

    Dec 15, 2000
    Portland, OR
    And they are still band members?
    If you can't follow simple instructions... You can't work here. Follow me?

    I blame the individual that decided to do something stupid, not the company that may profit from it.
    Put the blame where it belongs.:eyebrow:
    They could have just said "NO".
  5. cbrophy


    Nov 11, 2009
    Central MA.
    ...and so.....What were they thinking??? Their explaination was?
  6. NOAH_FX


    Aug 12, 2010
    Ottawa, Canada
    How old are they? I find this is common with less experienced people in the days of youtube.. They want instant gratification.. The ability to go "Wanna see what my band did" Their like "Cool Man" and their like "Ugh huh yep im awesome"..

    I'd wait until everyone involved meets again and tell them nothing's leaving the room this time.. No demo CD's, nothing, because apparently some people can't be trusted to act like adults.. I wouldn't name names, but they'd know, their da dumb.
  7. gustobassman

    gustobassman I'm only here for the after party.. Supporting Member

    Mar 31, 2011
    Sandy Eggo
    23 and 32. I just got off the phone with the younger one.. he said he only played it at his house and some friends heard it. i want to believe him because for a younger guy he's actually got his head screwed on.

    The other guy... i'll deal with him later. still getting details, but i think it was nothing malicious. These guys are just really excited to be in the situation we are in and need to relax a little bit. I do know there was a copy made, now it's all about getting that back.
  8. Tracebassplayer

    Tracebassplayer Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light.

    Dec 15, 2000
    Portland, OR
    and it's copy and it's copy and it's copy.... good luck on that
  9. gustobassman

    gustobassman I'm only here for the after party.. Supporting Member

    Mar 31, 2011
    Sandy Eggo
    i was sooooo trying to not think that way... (looking other direction)

    but you are probably right.
  10. Tracebassplayer

    Tracebassplayer Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light.

    Dec 15, 2000
    Portland, OR
    Gotta face the possible realities to move forward. :D

    And so does the 32 yr old mook that turned his study materials loose.
  11. rhino333

    rhino333 Supporting Member

    Jan 31, 2005
    Western NY State
    yeah.. Last drummer took a rough mix (not a final mix, not a master) and played it for friends and family even though he was told not to. It was for ONLY to determine if we liked the base tracks before we mixed.

    He hated his drum sound. He hated the room sound. He hated the bass sound. He hated the guitar sound. He hated the balance. He hated the instrument placement. But he DID played it for everyone. Then his friend, who was in the midst of his 2nd semester of music classes at the local Junior College and zero real life experience, explained everything we (I) did wrong to the recording so as to justify the drummers complaints.

    We now have a new drummer.
  12. KenHR


    Jul 28, 2010
    Waterford, NY
    I dunno, sounds like a couple over-eager folks. I wouldn't get bent out of shape over it.
  13. TBrett


    Nov 3, 2007
    Toronto, Canada
    I wouldn't get too bent out of shape about it, either (although I hear your frustration). Everyone in the band is going to be excited about having taken that step forward and it will hard for some to have the discipline and self-restraint to keep it to themselves. Not saying what they did was right, especially since you had an agreement, but the truth is, I often hear - and frankly, expect to hear - rough mixes from musician friends if we happen to get together while someone is in production. I let them hear our rough mixes, too. And yes, there have been times when one or more of us has chosen to share very early material with a non-musician friend or family member. Not the best plan, but not the end of the world, either. After much thought, we even posted a few of our better practice files online because we knew it would be a while before our demo would be ready. We record everything with a Tascam DR7, so while the recordings are raw, the live mix is pretty good and the files provide a decent representation of our sound. It's not what I would have preferred to post, but we had to get something out there to start the ball rolling. Got some pretty great feedback on that material, too.

    I guess the bottom line is, re-explain to your band mates your concerns about releasing material prematurely, and the importance of honoring band agreements, but remember that chances are, one or more of them will not be able to resist the temptation to share with their friends and family. It's okay, if not ideal. But make it clear that under no circumstances should they copy the material for anyone. I've been privileged enough to be given my own copy of several bands' early mixes over the years, but that is a rare event indeed, and I am very careful to hold up my end of the bargain by never sharing any of that unfinished material with anyone else. Your band mates' friends may not understand the importance of something like that.
  14. gustobassman

    gustobassman I'm only here for the after party.. Supporting Member

    Mar 31, 2011
    Sandy Eggo
    no doubt. having been seriously screwed by another band regarding recordings (that's a whole other subject i don't want to put on you guys), i take some stuff a little seriously. Im sure the main cat who made the copies wasn't intentionally trying to do anything.

    I just have a pride in my music, and yes i agree with musician friends being able to critique things, but the opinion of Joe Average doesn't mean much to me when the stuff isn't even close to being finished. Nor, IMO, should anyone but us have copies of bare-bones recordings. it's just too easy to put stuff online and who knows, someone who may like the finished product may think the scratch stuff sucks and we've lost a potential fan... that may come across as taking it little too seriously, but i don't lose sleep over it or anything.
  15. KenHR


    Jul 28, 2010
    Waterford, NY
    I think you have the right attitude with regard to your music. You should take pride in it, and treat it seriously.

    My post sounds perhaps a bit more dismissive than I meant it to; while your bandmates were in the wrong, I think people urging you to firing them were overreacting, and I was responding more to that than your initial post.

    A couple years ago, the band I was in did a seven song CD, very polished sounding. It took us a couple of months (we paid as we went along, so three hours here, four there, etc.) but the end product sounded fantastic. It was mighty tempting to play rough mixes for friends and family before we were finished, but holding off until everything was done was for the best, as our music could be appreciated in the best light (of course, then the band broke up!).
  16. gustobassman

    gustobassman I'm only here for the after party.. Supporting Member

    Mar 31, 2011
    Sandy Eggo
    ouch. you do all that work.. put everything into it.. i feel ya.. one of my horror stories had me recording all the parts, getting into a really bad argument with the bandleader, and thus quitting because i decided not to be treated the way i was. The band ended up releasing the CD with MY bass lines on it and SOMEONE ELSE taking credit for my work. even worse i was friends with the guy. he knew it was wrong.... and... oh well.. this gets ugly.. i'm gonna leave it there.. :rolleyes:
  17. KenHR


    Jul 28, 2010
    Waterford, NY
    Like yours, it's a long and bitter story. Funny how people start the diva trip when you're barely known in your hometown....

    The credit thing can be touchy. I had two songs on the CD, and I had written all the parts, so I still "own" them. For Mike's (the singer's) songs, I wrote my own basslines and made sure that they were credited to me when the tunes were submitted for copyright.

    Mike agreed to either credit me or have a new bass player write their own parts in the future if he goes on to start another group (which he hasn't, and that's a shame, because I like his material and think it deserves to be heard).

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