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what will happen to my little mark II if I use an 8 ohm cabinet with my UL410(4 ohm)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by quadrogong, Jul 19, 2007.


  1. quadrogong

    quadrogong

    Jul 6, 2006
    NYC
    IF I RUN 2.5 ohms through a head that does only 4 and 8 ohms,according to the manuf., what will happen? will I ruin the head?

    I really need advice, and quickly..
    I bought the markbass LMII, and LOVE it, amazing,
    I tried it with the UL410 and like it ,

    just for kicks,to hear how it sounded, I plugged in my goliath II (4x10,8 ohm) along with it..and the low end opened u p, it really thicked up alot, truthfully, I loved the sound with an additional 18" or an additional 4x10 alot more,
    but the problem is..
    My head does 4 ohms(500 wts) or 8 ohms(300 wts)..
    but doesn't say it handles 2 watts..
    I figure with the additional cabinet, I'm running somewhere like two or 3 ohms total,right?

    Will I really screw my head up doing this?
    and what's the solution??
    I want to keep that Markbass sound,
    i love the head..
    I guess I can trade the 4x10 in for a 6x10,
    but i want to keep things small, i'd rather buy a UL410,UL 210 or a UL15 as an second cabinet..

    and what if I upgraded to the 800 watt markbass head? does that do 2 ohms? will it help my situation and allow me to add the second cabinet safely?

    i also thought about getting a power amp,using the markbass's preamp along with a crazy powerful poweramp..for larger gigs and rehearsals, and then add another UL410..or 15" or 2x10,whatever..
    then use one cabinet for smaller gigs..
    help me solve this problem??
    I wanna keep the UL410,and the markbass head,although I'd upgrade to a more powerful markbass head.:help:

    ,
     
  2. Matt Morgan

    Matt Morgan Fellow Conspirator Supporting Member

    Oct 21, 2001
    Plano, TX
    Neither the LMII or the SD800 will do 2ohms.
    You need to get yourself a couple 8ohm cabs or one big honkin' 4 ohm cab if you need that much volume.

    If you run the LMII below the 4ohm rating, you're asking for some serious (probably not covered by warranty) smoke and spark, electrical burning smell, snap, crackle and pop type problems with your system.

    I wouldn't ask high powered electrical equipment to do something that it's not designed for. It's a "lose - lose" situation all around.

    Just my opinion of course, but I'm not into losing money and gear like that.
     
  3. As Matt said, and as a number of others have said on your previous threads, you cannot run the LMII under 4ohms. If you feel you need more thunder, I would highly recommend selling the LMII and getting a Carvin B1500. Massive wattage, massive low end, safe at 2 ohms, and a tone that while not identical to the LMII, is in the same tone category (modern but warm SS).

    K

    Edit: While I love my LMII with my 4ohm series I 410UL, I am less impressed with the LMII / 410UL Series II matchup. The voicing results in the LMII not being as loud and punchy as with the Series I. The SD800/410UL Series II matchup is stunning, and puts out so much low end it will scare you... so, that's another idea if you decide to stay with a single 410UL II
     
  4. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    I'm not sure, but here's what happened when someone tried the same rig yesterday in NYC!:D _44007978_nyrichardhurring1_416.
     
  5. Freddels

    Freddels Musical Anarchist

    Apr 7, 2005
    Sutton, MA
    Could he run from the LMII effects loop out to a separate power amp that is capable of doing 2 ohms and just use the LMII as the preamp?

    I'm doing that now with my old WW M-100.
     
  6. Per a few of Vic's posts about this, the output section of the LMII does not lend itself well to this plan. I'm not sure why, since I've never felt the need to do that, but PM Vic for the details.
     
  7. quadrogong

    quadrogong

    Jul 6, 2006
    NYC
    yeah..sigh, nuff said, I know.
    just wishful thinking, I tried it for about 2 minutes today, and it sounded much better.
    the messed up thing is.. last night, i had the 2 8 ohm cabs set up with her, the bigben and the goliath II..
    and it was thunderous. perfect.
    only I promised my drummer he can buy my 18" from me,
    I figured since I loved the head so much,and ordered the UL410, that I couldn't use the 18" anyway..

    I may just use the ul410 a bit with her, see how I manage,and if i want more low end booty, i can buy a second head that'll do the 2 ohms, for louder situations,and keep the LMII for clubs,convenience.

    so let me change the title of this thread to..
    What is a good powerful head that'll do 2 ohms well?
    I know about the carvin,and will check it out,
    good advice, any others?

    the ampeg svt pro-8 is great on paper, but expensive as hell..
    if i wanted to buy something 500-600 watts or more, that'll handle less than 4 ohms..
    any other suggestions?
     
  8. I might be wrong, but I think Yamaha BBT-500 can do 2 ohms. Those can be had quite cheaply.
     
  9. Matt Morgan

    Matt Morgan Fellow Conspirator Supporting Member

    Oct 21, 2001
    Plano, TX
    Genz Benz heads do 2 ohms as well. The GBE750 and 1200 get absolute raves. I really like the GBE1200! It would be my amp of choice if I were going to go the "big rig" route again.

    For a light weight and powerful head, my personal favorite is the Euphonic Audio Iamp800. It pumps 1000w @ 2 ohms.
     
  10. Eublet

    Eublet

    Jul 28, 2006
    +1, and I've said in other threads that this is the advantage that the lightweight Neo-pak has over the LMII, and it's a big one IMO. But I really don't want to turn this into another direct comparison thread.

    As for the MB heads only doing 4 ohms, I think this is a serious issue that they wil hopefully remedy in the future. When most people buy an average sized standalone cab (like a 212 or 410), they buy the 4ohm version so they can get more power out of their head. That instantly puts you at the limit with a MarkBass head, regardless of it's power rating. Even having a more powerful head like the SD800 that only does 4 ohms...man that just plain stinks from a flexability point of view, even if the head is great in every other aspect. At least it would for me.

    If the LMII is used just a lightweight gigging head and the user also has a 2 ohm head for larger shows and such, then it would probably be no problem. Still it's nice to have the flexibility. I've wound up running 2.66 ohm loads unexpectedly several times because the drummer wanted me to also provide him with a 112 so he could hear me better.
     
  11. i recommend you dis assemble the cab, put out the speakers and check the ohmage of each speaker... then see if you can re-wire it to have 4ohm... re-wiring is a common way to adjust cabs with many speakers to the resistance you need.

    i think you can google for tips on doing that re-wiring, if not, you can always ask here. Is not a big deal. It's just about puting something parallel into series, or series into parallel...

    would be great to know the ohmage of the 18" you have... and the ohmage of each of the 410 individual speakers... maybe we can find a solution.

    I dont recommend to use less than 4ohm... to low resistance will increase a lot the electric current... and will produce overheating and even can make your head blow up. I dont recommend. Or eighter you change the set up or alter the ohmage by rewiring the cab. (last one being a not ideal solution, I must add).

    I also must add that i not an expert in the matter... just my experience.
     
  12. Eublet

    Eublet

    Jul 28, 2006
    It's not so much the need as it is the ability, at least for me. With my 4 ohm 212 and 8 ohm 112, I can run them together and get equal wattage to all drivers. If I had to choose an 8 ohm 212 to do this, the combo wouldn't work out very well.

    I didn't mean to turn this into a GB thread, honestly. Many others head do 2 ohms safely.

    I agree, the SD800 is very handsome with regard to specs...except for the 4 ohm minimum load thingy. But someone kind of made my point unintentionally with their comment about thinking through your cab purchases a bit first. Having the ability to run 2 ohm loads negates the need to do that in a lot of ways. I can run any two cabs made right off the bat. Think about how much flexibility that gives. Two 4 ohm cabs, a 4 and an 8, whatever. Don't even have to do the math. Just connect them and go. But then I can also run 3 and even 4 cabs in some situations to accomplish different things, like put a 4ohm 212 out front for me, an 8ohm 112 in the back for a drummer, and then possibly another 8 ohm on top my 212, or shoot the 112 across the stage for a little side fill. It's not about how much volume I need, but about where I want to put a little sound. Spot treatment.

    Or let's say you have that rare large outside event where you'd like to connect your 410 along with a buddy's 410, both 4 ohm cabs, to make a full stack, just cause it looks cool. No problem. Hook 'em up and fuhgeddaboudit.
     
  13. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    How many people actually need that kind of flexibility AND expect to only spend $599 on an amp to drive things?
    :D

    Recommending a head that's almost double the price? Why not recommend the lower (comparably) priced GB head? It doesn't have the same power as the LMII in 4 or 8 ohm mode, you'd NEED to run a 2 ohm load for full power. That woud make it less attractive for the folks who run cabs that work fine with the LMII.

    I came to a simple solution... I use cabs that work with my amp. Either a pair of 8 ohm cabs or single 4 ohm cabs designed to get the job done. That's not going to work for everyone but I'd bet it works for most people who buy the LMII. If I got really bored and needed to run more cabs I could simply add another bass amp. For around the price of the GB heads mentioned you could buy a MB... and a spare MB;)
     
  14. coyoteboy

    coyoteboy easy there, Ned Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2000
    Sactomato, CA
    Uh, the manual for the Neo-Pak says 4ohm minimum speaker load. What was the advantage to which you are referring?
     
  15. quadrogong

    quadrogong

    Jul 6, 2006
    NYC
    ..some helpful advice,thanks.
    I really need to buy the carvin b1500 ,(1900 wts into 2 ohm)and use the 2 ohm head for my larger rig,and save the markbass for the single UL410..i can always sell either one..

    The reality of the situation is this..the one UL410 is really stunningly powerful,
    but when I used 2 cabinets, the low end Quality simply improved, it became larger,a tad more low end headroom. is it vital to my rig?..no, the one UL410 is certainly strong..

    I also felt it was more of an issue when I went active,
    while passive, the bass fell right in there, seemed more easy on the ears,less "eq'ed"

    I guess for the first time, I'm hearing true transparancy.
    I may return to the passive thing.

    I think a large part of controlling a stronger low end is developing better technique, I need to focus on my technique more and depend less on monsterous bass rigs..
    I used the onboard preamp to strengthen my tone,now I feel that the tone's so pure and dynamic,that I want to stay passive all of the time.
    gonna live with the one UL410,see if I can "work it"..
    if I decide i want that second cab,I can buy a 2nd head.. or
    I can just get two UL410's that are 8 ohm,trade it in.
     
  16. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings

    Bingo! Congrats, I think you're onto something.

    I've been told I get bigger, tighter bass out of basses vs. what others get out of the same exact bass. It is something you can work on... though most people I've run into don't seem to realize it. Instead they think they need a particular scale length bass or a cab that goes flat to 10hz.
    :bag:
     
  17. Foamy

    Foamy

    Jun 26, 2006
    Sac Area
    I love the smell of ozone in the morning!
     
  18. I agree with this also. Huge low end is vastly over-rated when playing in a mix. As I always post:D , when was the last time you saw a bassist playing live using backline only and said 'boy, I wish that guy had more low end'? More often than not, the bassist has a tone that sits right on the bass drum, and lacks upper mid articulation and any sort of treble response coming out into the audience. Most rooms that we all play in act as big old bass bins, amplifying the low end and attenuating the upper mids and treble (due to people, carpets, etc. in the room). I've been amazed at how mid-rangey your tone needs to be up on stage in order for a 'balanced tone' to reach the audience through all the other stuff going on in a typical mix.

    Technique also has a lot to do with it. Many beginning players favor the neck pickup and play close to the neck. That allows quite a bit of 'slop' in technique and also really sends a 'bass heavy' signal into your amplification system. As your technique improves and you begin to favor the neck pickup slightly (when the tune calls for it) and play a little closer to the bridge, the note definition greatly improves (and the low end remains), and you find that you don't need massive long throw woofers and huge power to project a tight, full bass tone to the audience (or to the mixing board).
     
  19. I believe the new Neo's are safe to operate at 2ohms, and that there is a mod for the older models.
     
  20. Well at best the amp will work as you want and at worse it will burn up but, it will probably just overheat and shut down. Your best bet would be to get a power amp and chain to it and run your other cabs. You'll have complete control of their volume and have no worries about damage.
     

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