What would you do with this musician?

OK, five years ago I started a group. There were four musicians. I had to let go the guitarist a year ago, although the members of my group reluctantly agreed to it.

About six months later, I saw on facebook that my sax player was playing a gig with the guitarist in a new band. It was the same instrumentation, playing the same set list. Essentially, the same band, but with a new bass player and drummer, all initiated by the displaced guitarist.

Meanwhile, the sax player had still been performing in my group for the last six months.

During this time, I'd kept this sax player as busy as he said he wanted to be, gave him the repertoire and creative control, and had the pay increasing just like he'd been insisting on. So, when I learned about his involvement with the displaced guitar player's group (simply a carbon copy of my own group), it surprised me the sax player didn't have the political foresight/courtesy to at least tell me what he was doing. Particularly since he was essentially joining a direct competitor with whom there were relationship issues, since I'd been compelled to force the guitar player from the band previously (with the sax player and drummers' permission, by the way).

When I learned the sax player was in this other band, the sax player indicated he was going to play in both bands. He said "the band I stay with is the one that has the best music and keeps me gigging the most". So, he implied he was on the verge of quitting. Or at least, putting me in competition with this other band, to serve his own interests the best.

I said I was confused as I'd actually scaled back gigs for him as he told me he only wanted to be out once a month or so. No solid answer.

He then recorded us at a gig to provide "evidence", and then ripped up the band's playing -- also blaming himself for some of it.

Then he did some other things that left me confused. We booked a jazz festival, and he agreed to do it. Then the other band (the one the fired guitarist started), also booked HIS group at the same festival, and ended up on the schedule at the same time as ours. The sax player kept his commitment to perform with our group, and the fired guitarist got a sub sax player for his group. At one point the sax player said this caused some ruffled feathers in the other group and that he (the sax player) "wasn't even sure if he was in the band anymore". He seemed to recommit to our group.

But then, after I booked a string of about 6 gigs over Christmas, he told me he was too busy with his church Christmas show performances (although he had kept the heavy gigging schedule the previous year in spite of the same church commitments). As a result, I had to create another band with subs, since we are so dependent on his keys and sax talents. The sax player liked the picture of this sub-band on facebook when I posted it.

Another thing -- he gripes about pay a lot. Often very picky about the time and places he plays. Doesn't like weddings even though they pay well, and doesn't want to drive out of town. He normally does them, but only after I twist his arm and have to convince him. He's always the hold out on whether we should do a gig. For example, I came up with a concept for a show, which preliminary market research would command about $200 per man easily, with no promotion involved (a seminar in which we teach teamwork, leadership, management and delegation to corporate employees, using the band as the vehicle for teaching and demonstration). He replied "that sounds like a lot of hassle". i said "What if you got $200 for doing it?". He said nothing. All the other guys in the group were thrilled with the idea!

Well, I learned a few months later, he's committed to a low paying restaurant gig (below the minimum he expects from me) with the displaced guitarists' group, and is playing into 1:15 am in the morning. Something I KNOW he would refuse if I asked him to do that.

In the last year, I've been on a "contractor's" model given my experiences all these years. I have a trio that I formed and hire contractors as I need them. Much easier, I find, with subs several musicians deep. I posted at thread on it, with positive comments from most talkbassers.

But in this original group I formed with the sax player, it is still somewhat peer based. Songs are custom, non-standard. They aren't easy to sub. The sax player controls the repertoire, so there are a lot of songs I'd rather not be doing.

The sax player seems like he's simply playing both sides of the fence, and given his comment in the beginning he will "stay with the group that has the best music and is the busiest" makes me think that at any point, I'm going to get a phone call telling me he's quit. And he will be hard to replace given his dual instruments (sax and keyboards).

I tried talking with him directly about it, but he's hard to talk to (always been that way). He gives cryptic statements and seems to act inconsistently. I even asked what he likes about our band -- why he keeps doing it -- and he wouldn't give me a straight answer.

So, is it time to let this guy go? Is it time to make this quartet a contractor's band like I did over Christmas, and stop investing in him? Some other alternative? Let me know what you think.

 

I don't like firing for a few reasons -- that's why I'm musing here.

The displaced guitarist has shown me he is unprincipled. I fully expect he will hit on my repeat corporate clients, as he knows the pay. The displaced guitarist is even marketing my band using a video he recorded of us, but calling it by his new band name. That is how low he is.

I think having the sax player getting whatever he's getting out of my group, while still in the displaced guitarist's group might keep the displaced guitarist in check. So far, we haven't gone after each others' gigs, and i have more to lose than he does -- all he's got is one, maybe two restaurants every 4 -6 months, and any random stuff that falls in his lap. I have repeat corporate and government contracts, plus industry associations that hire us regularly. Plus he's lazy about promotion, and going after all my clients is a way of getting gigs fast. I believe he would do that if the sax player is let go from our group. Plus, musicians will only go on for so long, rehearsing, etcetera, without gigs. There is a decent chance the guitarist's group might flounder if he can't book gigs. He's not good at it.

I also feel some loyalty to the guy -- he's been with me for five years. And in spite of my concerns, I generally like the guy.

 

This is a leftover peer band. Everyone settled into certain roles -- me the bill payer, gig booker, promoter, web designer, sub-finder, bass player. I founded it 5 years ago, and in the beginning, let the musicians walk all over me. He's a remnant of that era. I have other groups that I run on a contractor's model. That's going well.

I essentially have a quartet of different musicians that I had to form, out of necessity over the Christmas Holidays. I could simply rename it the name of my current band, and let the sax player go. But it would mean displacing our new guitar player of a year ago, as I feel a drums, guitar, bass and sax combination sounds really sparse when the guitarist is soloing.

 

His ability to play two instruments -- keys and sax -- carries some weight with me. In letting him go, I feel I must let go our guitar player as drums, bass, guitar and sax doesn't work very well -- and I don't want to do that. Plus the sax player is really good.

Yes, I've thought of that. I have a team of guys that want to do it. I explained the "rules" and expectations and they were cool with it, just deciding if I should pull the trigger.

Might be a good idea. I'm listening...

 

Yes -- in this world, you would go to the "partner" (sax player) and tell him that his work with the fired "partner" is too close in composition, and is already causing me hassle. And then ask him to make a decision about which group he wants to be in....one or the other, but not both. If he refuses, let him go.

Let the chips fall.

[Throw into your narrative that your ex-partner (guitarist) is also causing you extra work by demanding that you to take down all your online marketing materials. He is also taking your advertising and media, has put his name on it, and is using it to drum up business with clients you could also serve. This is happening at this moment with our videos].

 

He likes it better because the music is better. I know that. The fired guitarist came to us a couple or three years ago as a mediocre player (skills mostly out of practice, I think). And while I was out hustling clients, the guitarist was at home shedding -- even though he agreed to do sales and marketing as part of his responsibilities when I took him on. He got very good over a period of two years with the regimen of regular practicing we had. My skills remained constant as I really did have to focus on the business end to keep this band busy and working. during this period I also pioneered a lot of promotional techniques that worked, and they were very time consuming.

The other guys agreed to let me fire the guitarist after probably out best gig ever, which was hard on everyone as we had reached a new plateau. Our existing guitarist is good, and myself and the drummer like his style better, but the sax player's heart is with the displaced guitar player.

Also, the drummer the ex-guitarist uses is a better player than our drummer. I actually considered using this crack drummer in my group when there was a spot open, but he is an "employee musician". He also had restrictions -- no gigs in the middle of the week, would contribute ideas, but would not do sales. I opted for a weaker drummer, who I trained to play jazz, but who is also a salesperson by trade. Last year he booked more than 40% of the total gigs -- more than any other musician I've worked with.

Now, myself and the drummer are competent -- that is for sure. So don't think the music is bad, but it was a setback for the band to have to orient a new guitar player again. That was hard on the sax player, and all of us. I think that is why the sax player's heart is with this fired guitarist.

This thread is helping me realize that I need to lessen my dependence on the sax player. Too hard to sub, too hard to replace. The only saving grace is that he might help keep the exguitarist in check since for some reason, the sax player still seems to value my group, after 'controlling' for his quirky personality.