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Whats the diffrence between turning down cabs horn vs. turning down amps treble??????

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Modern Growl, Aug 12, 2005.


  1. Tonaly, whats the diffrence between turning down cabs horn vs. turning down amps treble??????
     
  2. dawhite33

    dawhite33

    Jun 8, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    My best guess is they have different frequencies. Your amp could have treble boost/cut at 8k, and your cab could have the crossover at 12k -- just picking random numbers here. Personally, I prefer to either leave my cab tweeter setting flat and tweak my amp's treble, or just turn my cab's tweeter off. It's kindof a pain to adjust my tweeter at gigs, so I just adjust the treble on my amp.
     
  3. nemo

    nemo

    Mar 19, 2004
    Czech
    From practical point of view, if you go post-EQ to PA, you would prefer to use tweeter to fine tune treble/bass balance on the stage instead of tweaking EQ as this would reflect in signal going to PA. If you go pre-EQ or without PA at all, it is just a matter of frequencies as posted above.
     
  4. I can't find any info on the horn in my combo. Its a Fender 250/115. I don't know what frequencies it produces.

    Generally, do frequencies produce highs, higher then 10kHz ?
    Thats why my frequencie my treble boost/cut.
     
  5. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Supporting Member

    Here's a similar question: on my Sadowsky P5 bass, why does it sound good when I boost the active treble control but roll back the passive treble control? Answer is because they are voiced differently... keep reading:

    The treble control on the amp likely has a center frequency (typically 4 or 5 kHz), whereas the crossover is "shelving" in that it controls all highs, not just a relatively narrow band. By turning down the horn, you are also rolling back ultra-high frequencies which often just contain hiss. If you boost the treble on the amp to compensate, you're probably just boosting "musical" high frequencies.

    Some treble controls are "shelving": they boost all frequencies above a certain point. But even if your amp has one of those, you still might prefer tweaking amp or tweeter or both at the same time. I don't think there's any right or wrong, just do whatever sounds best to you.
     
  6. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    If you turn down the tweeter the amp is still producing the power and you're burning it up, literally, as heat in the Lpad. Turn it down at the amp and you're conserving that power, and anytime power is conserved the usual result is cleaner sound.
     
  7. I was thinking the same thing, but I wonder.... the tweets are so much more efficient than the woofers, and besides there's so little actual energy in the bass signal in that freq range, is this a distinction without any practical significance? Given a 60-100 W horn is installed in a 1000W cab, given it takes double the power to get 3dB more volume, does saving 60 watts out of 1000 really amount to anything? Like the Pentagon trying to balance the budget by switching to single ply toilet paper.

    Like its a good idea in theory, but in practice, who really cares?

    Randy
     
  8. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The thing is that distortion in the lower registers is virtually inaudible, but the higher up you go the worse it sounds, and any distortion in the range where tweeters operate really sounds horrid. Anything you can do to clean up the signal above 3kHz is beneficial, and turning down the amps HF EQ is at the top of the list.
     
  9. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I don't disagree with the theory, but in practice you're creating a problem. For mine, Eq is for fine tuning, not for fixing fundamental problems in your audible starting point.

    I can see how it's pans out - you've got the horn operating with no attenuation and you've cut the treble at the preamp. The horn is more efficient than the woofer so you start cutting treble with EQ. Some of the frequencies will be cut by as much as the amp or preamp will allow. At some point during the gig you may need to make an adjustment. God help you if you're still a little bit trebly. You've got no-where to go on the preamp, and the tweet's L-pad is out of reach at the back of the cab.

    Surely you're better off starting with something that sounds decent with everything set flat and using EQ for tweaks.