1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  

Where do you stand on the whole Apple iPhone terrorism thing?

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by two fingers, Feb 18, 2016.


  1. Yes, security is more important.

    15.6%
  2. No, privacy is more important.

    84.4%
  1. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    This is not political. And please don't take it there.

    So, the shooters in San Bernardino had a phone. The FBI is convinced that getting into that phone would yield some information that would help them both put the pieces together in this case, and possibly help stop future attacks.

    Apple's CEO, Tim Cook, is standing firm on not allowing their programmers to write a "back door" program to break into the phone.

    Now, let's try to keep this civil. And, again, there is no need to even name a politician here. All I care about is YOUR opinion on whether security or privacy is more important to YOU.

    I'm pretty sure we all have mixed emotions over this. That's only natural.

    Where I fall down on it is privacy trumps security every time. I actually admire Apple for sticking to its guns. In fact, just knowing that the government can't hack into an Apple phone makes me want to leave Android land and go that route.

    No, I don't think the government cares what I do. I'm not paranoid. But still, just the fact that the government CAN'T get into one of those phones is comforting to me. And just knowing that a company chair cares enough about my privacy to take on some serious heat is impressive. Kudos to you, Mr.Cook.

    The actual words, and even the context, of the famous "quote" get butchered all the time. That being said, I still believe no matter which version you go with, who wrote it or why they wrote it.... it holds true.

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    Or......

    “Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither.”

    However, I don't hate anyone for preferring that security reign in situations like this. It's a terribly personal thing. I admit, I have never lost anyone to an attack like this.

    Enough babbling. Share your thoughts. Keep it civil. Keep your politics in your pocket, please!
     
  2. mrb327

    mrb327

    Mar 6, 2013
    Colorado
    Nobody Knows
    FBI needs a subpoena to get Apple to unlock the one phone. In that event, the FBI should take the phone to Apple Corporate, they can destroy the code when they are done

    Or accidentally format it
     
  3. Bryan R. Tyler

    Bryan R. Tyler TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002 Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    May 3, 2002
    Connecticut
    If they put video cameras in all of our bedrooms, they may prevent a little crime too. All we have to sacrifice is our freedom. No thanks.

    A great example is the TSA. Look at what it's cost us in both tax dollars and privacy, then look at what it's prevented (hint: nothing).
     
  4. mrb327

    mrb327

    Mar 6, 2013
    Colorado
    Nobody Knows
    So I guess my answer is "Due Process, with caveats "
     
    itsalljustaride likes this.
  5. mrb327

    mrb327

    Mar 6, 2013
    Colorado
    Nobody Knows
    Nobody wants a camera in my bedroom!
     
    Murdoc_420 likes this.
  6. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    While I see your rationale, the problem is that it sets precedence. Already the commissioner of NYC police has said he would like access to the technology as well. What would stop the same Supreme Court that allows it once to come back once a month and allow it again, until we all just accept it as the norm?

    Yes, the old "slippery slope" is amateur hour debate technique. But I actually think these kinds of situations are where the phrase originated.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
    petrus61, mrb327 and One Drop like this.
  7. knumbskull

    knumbskull

    Jul 28, 2007
    UK
    Apple have built up vast amounts of detailed customer data that is worth a lot of money. They're just protecting their investment. You can guarantee that as soon as it becomes sufficiently profitable for them to share that data, they'll do so without hesitating.

    In the meantime, this is just a bit of sabre rattling to remind everyone who's boss.
     
    handofseven, yodedude2 and bolophonic like this.
  8. Michael B

    Michael B

    Dec 16, 2015
    Lowell, MA
    Privacy is important. Prosecutors and law enforcement will stretch whatever liberty they can to put a bad guy away - who THEY believe is a bad guy. So give an inch ...

    It's one of the reasons I use Apple products. They are more secure. I literally have nothing to hide but that's not the point. Privacy is freedom. And that's worth it.
     
    JMacBass65, mrb327 and two fingers like this.
  9. Michael B

    Michael B

    Dec 16, 2015
    Lowell, MA
    That's absolutely not true. They protect their customers from being leveraged by others for sure and the keep their customers to themselves. But their business model relies on loyalty. Therefore they do not exploit privacy.
     
    Mvilmany, OldDog52 and JMacBass65 like this.
  10. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    As a cynic myself, I can appreciate cynical points of view. I'm not sure if this is true, but I do understand the region of the brain from whence it came. :cool:
     
    JMacBass65 and knumbskull like this.
  11. jmattbassplaya

    jmattbassplaya Looking for a gig around East Islip, NY!

    Jan 13, 2008
    Privacy trumps in this case.
     
  12. I applaud Apple and hope Tim Cook et al stick to it.

    That being said, not political? LOLOLOLOLOL!!! Let's see, the GOV wants a company to change its product for Law Enforcement purposes, and it's NOT political? Unless you saw the possibility of this becoming a right vs left thing (it shouldn't) anyway.

    Also, that being said again, this is a great discussion idea and hope this stays open and civil. No reason why it shouldn't.

    PS: I think it's rationale.
     
    Mvilmany and Hoff Kinkmeister like this.
  13. knumbskull

    knumbskull

    Jul 28, 2007
    UK
    Yes, they protect your privacy in a way that other companies don't. They also gather very detailed data. So that data represents a huge goldmine.

    I'm not saying they sell it now - they don't. But this is business, not morals, and you can bet the value of that data is well known.
     
    blue4 likes this.
  14. knumbskull

    knumbskull

    Jul 28, 2007
    UK
    I just think that businesses will behave like businesses :)

    On a side note, they didn't do a super great job of protecting the privacy of all those celeb nudie pics on the Cloud a couple of years ago. Uh, apparently.
     
  15. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Not a bad point.... However, unless I remember the story incorrectly, that was interweb/servers security issues and not Apple products specifically. Feel free to correct me if I go that wrong.
     
    knumbskull likes this.
  16. Michael B

    Michael B

    Dec 16, 2015
    Lowell, MA
    I can give you an example that shows that your assumption that they are gathering huge amounts of exploitable info isn't valid. It shows that Apple keeps loyal customers by protecting them. It's one part of how they charge way more for underpowered /underfeatured but arguably better experience products.

    They setup Apple Pay to give users a unique convenient and safe way to pay for things. The fee on the transaction is insignificant compared to the CC fee. And not only does it keep the info private from the retailer, it keeps the CC # off the retailer's network and databases AND it keeps this info from Apple. It's just not in their plan to keep loyal customers. It's the same for their cloud services. The user can access the users data using theit phone, but the app developers can't and Apple can't. Protecting privacy is a core part of their plan to retain happy customers who pay more for theur products.
     
  17. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Noted on "rationale". I type faster than I think. Thank you for the correction.

    Sure, ANY topic can and does have political ramifications. However, a discussion of said topic doesn't have to get "political". We can simply share our own gut instincts/feelings on the subject without dragging that stuff into it. You and I have done so in the past. Hopefully others can as well.
     
    Scatabrain likes this.
  18. mrb327

    mrb327

    Mar 6, 2013
    Colorado
    Nobody Knows
    What should be noted without trying to be political:

    The gov failed to do their job on many different points prior to that occurrence.

    In no way should it be a private entity's job to fix the govs failure
     
    DwaynieAD and Scatabrain like this.
  19. 96tbird

    96tbird PLEASE STAND BY

    I don't get why they think info from a phone will prevent future attacks. Look at the record of prevented takedowns. Profiling and or tips from informants brought would be attackers down. There is little in a phone that would give precognition to the FBI. It's a ploy to set a precedent to use in the future against citizens that didn't get killed while perpetrating their transgressions.

    I believe in law enforcement. Laws are to be enforced by having police at the ready, and s populace working with the police as witnesses on the ground. Part of this in a free society is that you have to be caught in the act, not before.

    This is a ploy.
     
  20. mrb327

    mrb327

    Mar 6, 2013
    Colorado
    Nobody Knows
    Could be true.
    They might think there are others they can apprehend, I will agree. But this could be blatantly abused
     
    Scatabrain likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.