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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Steeltoe, Apr 11, 2003.
I am thinking of adding a 2x12 to compliment my (sunn) 410H.
Any recommendations appreciated.
Mark (the owner) is seriously the nicest guy around.
Glockenklang and Tech
...well, not anymore. Try an HT322 sometime (2x10, 1x12).
My friend has a Music Man 2x12 guitar cab from the 80's that I've been trying to get from him for years. It's a folded horn 2x12 and it sounds great on top of my Carvin 1x18. My normal amp is a GK-800RB and it's bi-amp mode gets along great with those two different cabs. I just keep adding upper volume through that MM cab to slice through whatever pesky guitar players try to get in my air. If I ever get that cab for my own, I might add a switchable piezo to it to make sure that I will never get stuck in the mud.
Big String was selling his Bergie 2/12.....great cab, with thunderous lows & sweet high end.
I have an Epifani 2x12 for sale...
The Accugroove Whappo Jr. is in essence a 2x12, plus a couple extra drivers. I played one last night, and it is really a phenomenal cabinet. Expensive, but worth it, I'd say.
I haven't heard the Epi or Berg 2x12, but I am sure that they are excellent, too.
I auditioned a MM 2x12 serveral years ago and was VERY impressed with the tone/clarity, but as I recall, it was not very efficient, and didn't feel like it was moving a lot of air. Still, the sound was incredible. At that time, I ended up getting an Eden 212XLT, which I think is an incredible cab. Very articulate, but with a bit of growl to it. To my ears, it does not sound anything like what I have come to expect from an Eden cab. It's a relative bargain, too, and worth a listen, unless you are going for a real airy sounding cab (which it ain't).
Hope this helps, Tom.
I dig my Aguilar 2x12. Don't know if it's the "best", but it sounds really good. Nice price, too.
The Bergantino 2x12 is an outstanding cabinet. Killer tone - clear and rich, and punchy if you need it to be. Very efficient and loud. One of the best!
Strictly a matter of opinion, of course. Mine is the Epifani T-212 (older model with horizontal, heavier drivers).
I was very impressed when I got the chance to test out the Berg 2x12. Very rich sounding and deep.
I just bought a baby Bergantino HT112 and am seriously saving bucks to get the EX112. That would be my recommendation. Portability and great Bergantino tone and I haven't had to deal with Bergantino customer service but from what I've heard, Jim is a wonderful person to deal with.
But then again, I have a Bag End D12-D that has been my main gigging cab for awhile and I still love the way it sounds for my bluesy finger-style. It sounds great with any of my basses, it's very efficient and will take a rediculus amount of power without batting an eye. I really like the way that the cabinet is shaped for carrying. It's tall and lean which makes it very easy to pickup and carry. Plus the fact that Bag End is the only company that gives a 6 year warrenty. And they really seem to stand behind their equipment.
I like what my Genz Benz 212XBT does for me.
Funny because I replaced my two D212XLT's for two of those EB-MM HD212's. You are right about the Eden's being a little "grungier" but I did find them to also be noticably "looser" as well. I had a hard time getting a tight sound from them for my dub-reggae trio. I was really enamoured with them at first but after comparing the EB's to the Edens I just had to make the swap. My new EB's are way deeper and have far more headroom which is a big plus for my low-down, filtered synth bass material. That 6" driver is the real key I think. It adds a very upfront midrange snarl that really hits you in the chest. I think the seperate mid driver also allows the 12"s to reach down a bit lower. The build quality of the EB's is allot sturdier than the Eden's; they felt kinda cheap and mass produced to me. I have no issue with efficiency; they be plenty loud.
I've gone on about my new cabs a bit much around here...maybe not as classy or "hi-fi" as Berg's or Epifani's but what a bargain.
My old Eden stack;
Holy cow! That must have been one loud rig! I've never had any problem getting a tight response out of my 212XLT. In fact, I just A/B'd it to my new Epi T-112/T-110UL combo, and it sounds pert darn just as tight. It just also adds that ever-present bit of growl (which you may or may not find desireable).
I can see how the the EB-MM 2x12's might sound tighter, though. That is a very in-control sounding cab, whereas the 212XLT is a bit more in your face. When I tried it out, the store only had one EB-MM 2x12 and one EB-MM 2x10, so I didn't get to try two of the 2x12's. That might have moved more air, but as it was, I seem to recall that the 2x12/2x10 combo couldn't keep up with one 212XLT, volume-wise. This was before I picked up my PLX 3002, so efficiency was a factor for me back then...
You are right that those EB-MM cabs are built like a tank, though. Very impressive. Fairly compact, too, as I recall.
It's a good one for sure!
Please tell us more details on the Whappo Jr!!! How do you compare it soundwise to your Epi rig, others you've had etc.? I'm seriously considering one. I much prefer the tone...it's just an opinion not ment to offend anyone....of a 3 way or more bass cabinet vs a two way. That, combined with an aging back kinda limits my options a little but I'll lift 81 1/2 pounds if it's the right cab.
My alternative is to go with adding a epi 112 to my epi 310 rig on some gigs and use the 112 alone for some smaller gigs. Right now I have no small cabinets....just the 310. I have a practice combo amp with 80 watts and 115 (no tweeter) that I use for rehearsals and piano bar fill in gig.
I'd like to use (no real urgency) a higher quality cabinet for those gigs and maybe get a used clarus or a lower wattage GK? for that gig and some of our rehearsals..BUT, the big gigs are more important, more often coming around (10 in the next two months), so we need to take of them first, although volume wise, the Epifani 310 is certainly more than adequate for my band in literally any situation so far.
There....my current "life's story"! Where did you play the Whappo Jr...in a store somewhere or show?
Tell me...Please tell me....I gotta know!!! I'll take an afternoon off of work next week to try it out!!.
Larry in cleveland.
The store that I went to (Low Down Sound in Ferndale, MI, of all places!) carried Epifani, Accugroove, Bag End, Eden, SWR, Ampeg, I think Trace Elliot, and maybe one or two more. They also made their own cabs, which were quite nice, too.
The Accugroove cabs that they had in stock were a Tri 208 (which was probably the smoothest full-range cab there, but which seemed a bit inefficient for the 300w I plan on throwing at it), the Mini Whappo (more on this below), and the Whappo Jr., which I found to be very similar to the Mini Whappo, just a bit more massive and tight in the low end (and more massive overall, of course).
It was very unusual how similar the two Epi cabs (T-112 and T-110UL) sounded stacked next to the Mini Whappo. I had tried all of the Epi cabs there (the aforementioned pair, plus a T-310 and a T-210UL), and while they were all nice, none of them compared in clarity and balance to the Mini Whappo. Then I tried the T-112 and the T-110UL together, but they weren't sitting on top of each other (I think the T-112 was on top of the T-210UL, and the T-110UL was sitting on something else next to it), and it really didn't blow me away.
So, I was just about ready to walk out the door with the Mini Whappo, when I asked them to stack the two Epi's next to it. We were all floored at how different the T-112/T-110UL combo sounded in this configuration. Night and day difference. Then, we were further shocked at how similar this setup sounded to the Mini Whappo. Volume, clarity, range were all VERY similar. The Epi's had a bit more coloration, as you would expect, but the difference was subtle. After much A/B-ing (and this is already well after the store "closed"), I decided that with my Gibson Thunderbird (which, of course, has passive humbuckers), I slightly prefered the Epi stack. With my active 5-string, I slightly preferred the Mini Whappo.
The Accugroove cab definitely let more of the instrument shine through, and the difference in tone from axe to axe was astounding. The Epi combo tended to have somewhat less sonic difference between basses, and sort of maintained its own flavor (which is very nice, of course). I do think the low B was noticeably tighter on the Accugroove, but surprisingly the E was tighter on the Epi combo.
While I didn't make any direct comparisions between the two, my impression was that compared to the T-310, you will get a bit more volume out of the Mini Whappo, and the balance across your instrument's sonic spectrum, as well as articulation, will be noticeably enhanced with the Mini Whapp. The T-310 had a much warmer sound, but my T-Bird is plenty warm by itself, and sounded much more tight with the Mini Whappo.
I was also suitably impressed with the Whappo Jr. If low end clarity (and lots of it!) is your forte, then it would be hard to beat (except by an El Whappo, I would guess). I am seriously considering trading in my Boogie 4x10 and my 212XLT for a Whappo Jr. or El Whappo to use with my big rig.
Now, with all that said, I still need to come back to just how incredible the T-112/T-110UL combo sounded. Adding the T-110UL took the T-112 from a very nice sounding cab, to an articulation monster! Every note, no matter where you played on the fingerboard, was clear, quick, and precise (as was the Mini Whapp). I guess I would have to admit that on an ears only basis, I slightly preferred the Mini Whappo. But then my back jumped in and reminded me of just how light the T-110UL is, and the rest is history.
Ferndale is near Detroit, so I's say you've got a 2 hr 45 min to 3 hr drive from Cleveland, unless you know of a closer Accugroove dealer. You can check out their website at www.lowdownsound.com. Both Don and Ryan stayed around with me for two hours after they were supposed to close, and they treated me really well.
ought to meet in Ferndale!!! Thanks for your breakdown.
Gotta ask!! With my Sunn 1200 S head, the 310, and perhaps another 4 ohm cab, I'll have very very close to 1200 Watts at just over 2 ohms. My original idea was to use the tri 208 AND the epi 310, the 310 for the warmth and fullness which I feel is really adequate, and the 208 for a little more clarity, punch, and snap. The Tri 208 is also relatively light (back thing...sounds familiar eh?) at 42 pounds? and with enough power pushing it, I assume that it would add a nice flavor. Considering that the Tri 208 is, my guess, about what....$850 plus or minus, maybe a little more?, and a new Epi 112 is $600, my guess is the Tri would add more of what I'm looking for to the 310 than adding a 112.
I wonder that with enough power, whether th Tri 208 could possibly handle my gig either stand alone...probably pushing my luck, or in combo with an Epi 112 which would keep my over all weight down to around 80 to 85 pounds...pretty much the same at the Whappo Jr, but give me a lot more flexibility?
What chu thunk of this? I'll have to get the store hours up there and call them before I leave so I know what bottoms are there before I go visit.
Let me know what you think of this combination of stuff.
That Eden "growl" quickly turned into outright farting when pushed hard. I thought the 212XLT's were pretty "floppy", at least for me. The EB's have twice the headroom and have never once bottomed out. I know what you mean about that Eden "growl", just that the EB's snarled for me just fine and don't distort like the 212XLT's.
I would have to say that the mids are a bit more upfront with the EB's as well? That 6" driver really grabs me by the throat, hit's folks square in the chest.
Keep in mind the fact that I tend to demand allot from my gear and probably push my rigs harder than most maybe would.