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Why are some people so reluctant to learn to read?

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by BassyBill, Apr 7, 2010.


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  1. JeffBerlin

    JeffBerlin Guest

    Jan 10, 2009
    Interesting post! But I can sum up my thoughts in one small comment. I own golf clubs, I have no plans to going pro. Therefore, in regards to learning how to play golf and gaining skills via good lessons, I don't need to!
     
  2. JeffBerlin

    JeffBerlin Guest

    Jan 10, 2009
    I walked away from my computer for a few minutes and when I came back, my post was deleted! Did things get nuts when I left?
     
  3. JackANSI

    JackANSI

    Sep 12, 2006
    PA
    When taken from that point and the others you made about 'immutable musical truths' as a foundation, I see what you're on about.

    But the fact you added 'i simply wanted guys like yourself to know this. What you do with this info is up to you' still makes your post reek of self-importance. Is it really worth solidifying a few people's desire to not learn how to read just to make your point?

    But I still don't see your correlation between improving and reading as being a one size fits all, guaranteed path to mastering expressive ability. Which is probably what the others are actually on about, not so much totally throwing your ideals out. I'm sure if they could instantly learn to read music, they wouldn't trade that in and say "no thanks".
     
  4. JeffBerlin

    JeffBerlin Guest

    Jan 10, 2009
    I appreciate the sentiment. Just make sure that you know that you don't pay for music education unless you actually receive something justifiable from your investment. Most lessons aren't worthy of regard, not if you wish to improve as a musician, so make sure that you separate "The Good Stuff" from "The Fun Fluff"!
     
  5. standupright

    standupright

    Jul 7, 2006
    Phoenix, AZ
    Brownchicken Browncow
     
  6. JeffBerlin

    JeffBerlin Guest

    Jan 10, 2009
    In learning English, one size fits all! The word "cat" is always spelled this way, and always means the same thing. But, in the hands of a hip writer, the word takes on other meanings (that guy is a nice cat). You need to know what the word means before you can use it within the art that you visualize for yourself.

    In regarding the facts of music, one size fits all, without exception if you are seeking to improve as a player. What you do with what you have learned broadens the art field almost to the point of infinity. But, many guys don't know the difference between learning and expressing, which is why they can't get their heads around the truth that one size, indeed, does fit all! Makes sense? What do you think?
     
  7. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    absolutely 100% true. but the less motivated card collector isn't going to tell the more motivated card collector how to keep his cards looking new, or tell the more motivated card collector that his Harvey Schmidlap card from last week is as valuable as the other guy's Honus Wagner card from 1897.

    yet less motivated musicians seem very comfortable with dispensing poor advice. jeff just accused me of being one of those people with a thinly veiled shot at me followed by a big unveiled shot at me, but here's why he's 100% completely wrong...i know what i know and i know what i don't know. meaning, when i get into an area that i'm not strong on, i shut up and let the experts talk about it, and i read and try to learn from them, and if i have anything to say, it's almost always a question. when i get into an area where i have expertise, i comment. maybe occasionally i've overstepped my bounds, but it's rare, and the times i did it i got my ass handed to me, deservedly.

    so all i'm saying is that if you're not motivated to read, then don't. but don't be giving advice on the drawbacks to learning how to read because unless you've learned to read, you're clueless about what it can bring you.

    i'm using the royal "you," btw, not speaking about you personally, ed.
     
  8. JackANSI

    JackANSI

    Sep 12, 2006
    PA
    It does make sense, but you still don't NEED to read to express yourself in music. That alone makes it impossible to say one size fits all. Yes, learning the english language up to and through the college level will aid in your conversation skills and might help land better jobs. But it will not put infinity at your feet. You still need passion, drive, and a willingness to do what is needed. Without that you're still up a creek..

    Granted its hard to understand a what a newborn wants because their communication skills, both reading and talking, aren't to par with his/her parents. A parent can still generally understand what needs done by the type of crying involved.

    And just making people wrong will only solidify them in their ways, you need to create internal dissatisfaction in their methods to really motivate them to change..
     
  9. JeffBerlin

    JeffBerlin Guest

    Jan 10, 2009
    I always equated how hillbillys speak with how players who don't know music play. If hillbillys received an education, wouldn't they be able to communicate better?
     
  10. etoncrow

    etoncrow (aka Greg Harman, the curmudgeon with a conundrum)

    Jeff, you ever feel like you're beating a dead horse? I feel like you are when I read this thread and the ones that preceded it. You must have the patience of Job.
     
  11. etoncrow

    etoncrow (aka Greg Harman, the curmudgeon with a conundrum)

    Hey, you're walking on the fighting side of me with the Hill Billy talk. We communicate just fine thank you very much
     
  12. jarrhead

    jarrhead

    May 23, 2009
    Jimmy,

    There were no drawbacks to learning how to read. The more you know and the more you can do the better you are, it's that simple.
     
  13. etoncrow

    etoncrow (aka Greg Harman, the curmudgeon with a conundrum)

    By the way, I'm a Hill Billy with a degree in fine art and another in mechanical engineering. We clean up real good.
     
  14. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    ya, i'm a little sick of this hillbilly talk, too. i've known so-called hillbillies who couldn't talk well but make more sense than a roomful of college educated executives. but i guess it's ok when jeff does the insulting...it's only not ok when someone else does it to him.
     
  15. etoncrow

    etoncrow (aka Greg Harman, the curmudgeon with a conundrum)

    yeah, they "good old boy" most folks all the way to the bank
    edit: Well Jeff, as a hillbilly would say, I tried to give you an "atta boy" but you went and soiled the nest so I am out of here.
     
  16. standupright

    standupright

    Jul 7, 2006
    Phoenix, AZ
    Brownchicken Browncow
    here is a thought that i can't recall if it has been expressed or not.

    learning to read music has multiple forms of benefit for a musician regardless of your goals. at the very core of what it provides is that learning to read music has a direct influence on how you approach music whether what you are doing as a musician requires you to read or not. it creates (as with learning anything new) new synapse within your brain that directly correlates with the activity of playing music (at the very least). this provides you the ability to approach your playing with something that isn't necessarily and up front noticeable artifact, but provides you the ability to approach, consider, create, and play with a more fortified foundation of what you are doing with your instrument and your contribution within a tune.

    right now i play mostly blues / jazz / funk type stuff. i never practice anything in this genre unless i'm learning a tune. what i do practice however is reading from finger exercises and etudes from classical study.

    just my viewpoint. not a complete and solid approach. but one that i firmly believe to be valuable and fruitful when it comes to playing music.
     
  17. JeffBerlin

    JeffBerlin Guest

    Jan 10, 2009
    One really doesn't NEED to eat well to survive! One really doesn't NEED to live in a house to have shelter. One really doesn't need a car to get where they are going. To get right down to it, what does one really need?

    I dismiss the loophole reasons that some seek to avoid improving in music. What I am about to say may or may not apply to you, and I don't mean to point a finger at you alone. But some debate hard to seek flaws in the practice methods that actually are without flaw and which would give players what they say that they seek, an improved playing ability.

    People debate the meaning of a word, of a thought, and really look to find loopholes in explanations. I don't! I always go with what is logical to get me what I am looking to acquire. I seek excellence and I never look for loopholes. Certainly it is fun to banter back and forth principles over here. But at the end of the day, bass players as a group can't play, can't read, can't solo! Heck! They can't tune their own instrument by ear. Imagine! Many musicians are tone deaf and still argue against fixing this musical weakness that so many have.

    I wish for yours and everyone's sake, that they might consent to another path, a musical path and aim much higher in music than they are presenting aiming.
     
  18. BassyBill

    BassyBill The smooth moderator... Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 12, 2005
    West Midlands UK
    AAAANNNNDDDD it seems that we're about done.

    Thanks y'all for the taking part. It's been emotional. :D
     

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