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Why are some people so unreasonable?

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by Bottom Feeder, Apr 28, 2006.

  1. Bottom Feeder

    Bottom Feeder encridublee smatr

    Nov 22, 2004
    Huntington Beach, CA
    I guess I'm just too reasonable for my own good. My career just requires me to think with reason and be able to discuss issues, keep them on track and with a goal in mind.
    Maybe it's the case of all guitarists being cast from the same mold consisting of ego and narcissism. They can't all be this way can they? They all have seemed that way to me.
    Latest case in point: For the past several months the band I have been in has supposedly been striving to be a gigging cover band. We all are decent musicians but with careers and family ('cept for the singer). We are in our early forties so we are not striving to be the next big thing. Just to have fun as a hobby, play some bar/club/parties, and enjoy a small income supplement. We have discussed the importance of versatility in song selection. A human juke box, if you will, to cater to each situation realizing that hard rock only will limit the venues. We have discussed tone and volume which I believe may be more important than hitting every note and playing tunes exact.
    So why is it that the volume creeps up every practice to where the guitar is riding way on top of the mix. Every time. To where the guitar bass frequencies walk all over mine and the vocals. So now I can barely hear the drums. Do I need to keep tellin' this guy to turn down? To adjust his tone? To fit into the mix? Why is it after all the talk of tune versatility does the guitarist wanna throw in a Whitesnake tune or yet another VanHalen number when we have not gotten down the many other more practical tunes we agreed to be working on? Hey, I like hard rockin' tunes as well but see the need for standards and tunes people can maybe dance to. Why after I have explained the need to learn the songs at home during the week and bring it together at rehearsal does the guitarist say "Show me the chord pattern for this tune"?
    Anyhow I got p.o'd the other night while we are working towards a gig in 3 weeks and started hollerin over the mike to "turn down the volume!". He got angry and pouty and then when the tune was over says to me
    "Will I be able to turn it down?" What? Why is he asking me if he can lower his volume? He says "Maybe I just won't fit into the upcoming gig." ***? Why can't he just turn it down? Why all the drama when it's as simple as turning a knob? Why has he wasted all our time?
    So I walked. Wasted time. Probably should have long ago.
    Looks like the drummer did too.
    The singer hasn't been any better in the band with still reading the words after all this time and not knowing the basic structure of the tune. I am not the best player in the world, but I'm very competent and admit when I screw up and am constantly trying to fit the mix.
    So why is it some people are so unreasonable and unable to work towards a common goal? I guess I already know what the answers will be. Just doing some venting.:mad:
  2. Demon


    Mar 17, 2006
    Sweden, Stockholm
    Join a new band:)
  3. Demon


    Mar 17, 2006
    Sweden, Stockholm
    Or, like Harris, when his old band didnt like him, make one yourself, your rules:)
  4. Folmeister

    Folmeister Knowledge is Good - Emile Faber Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    Tomball, Texas
    Amen, brother. I am in the process of killing an entire project because of a guitarist that displays the same qualities. It has been a year of not-so-subtle hints and he still makes clown cheese. The problem is that he's "a friend" and plays the "friend card" at every turn. The others refused to cut him loose and now I am making sure that the project dies on his account.
  5. thumbman

    thumbman Love that low end

    Nov 2, 2005
    Melbourne, Australia
    Its a guitarist thing...

    at the moment i am in an all originals band, and the guitarist really likes his gibson into marshall, so of course, it becomes the only damn thing you can hear half the time. He plays with the bass on full and the master cranked and here i am with 400 watts of all tube power and all i do when i try to get heard is bust a cone...yeh...thanks man. so i get my cab back from ampeg and i talk to him, ask him as nicely as i can, to turn down and cut a LITTLE bass from his tone...he get really offended like i punched his mother or something saying that our biggest problem right now isnt tone and so on and we will work all that stuff out later....

    ok..fair enough, we have some pretty big problems i'll agree....but all i want is you to TURN 2 ****ING KNOBS!!!

    guitarists:scowl: ...i think the perfect band would have a bassist on guitar.
  6. Standalone


    Jan 17, 2005
    New Haven
    my bossa nova playing jazz quintet had a gig sunday, and I had been working with the guitarist on getting him to pull out some of the bassiness of his tone-- but the gig came around and my wife said that I was the one who was too loud!

    Shame on me! Not all guitarists are so bad. Work and Communicate and Compliment what you can... ask him what he would like you to change...
  7. Bottom Feeder

    Bottom Feeder encridublee smatr

    Nov 22, 2004
    Huntington Beach, CA

    Hehe. I know what the problem is...you just forgot to re-adjust after he reduced his volume.

    Also, I tried every possible way I could think of to get him to sit in the mix. From joking to serious discussion, to me turning up and making it worse to not playing at all to see if he'd notice to hollerin' at him. And I have always been complimentary to all in the band. I'm a project manager and know the value of praise. Problem is that I believe he is so self-absorbed he doesn't have a clue. He would miss obvious changes that, if he was listening, would realize it had moved out of the chorus and into the next verse. But his level is so high he can't hear it. I stuck with it because I liked the guy and he actually plays technically very well.
    Most likely it has been a myriad of problems with the singer and the guitarist that finally got me to walk and I think I was gonna go anyhow. That evening I just gave him every hint, look and word I could to give him a chance. I believe he pouted and forced the issue. The drummer and I just looked at each other , laughed and rolled our eyes. I can't say enough good about our drummer who I always locked in well with and liked a good mix as well.
  8. Like in Ghostbusters, don't cross the beams...

    In other words, make sure he's standing right in front of his amp, with it pointed at his head, not his balls.

    I've been in bands where my amp is next to the drummer, in the center, but the guitarist HAS TO BE IN THE CENTER OF THE STAGE... :rollno: So he's standing in front of my amp, his amp is pointing away from him, so he turns up screaming loud cause all he hears is bass.

    Having said that just to cover all bases, you're probably right, general rule of thumb is they are just naturally too damn loud.

    Especially if you're blowing cones at practice, that's just flat out crazy.

  9. ElBajista


    Dec 13, 2005
    Sebring, FL
    I think you hit the nail on the head....
  10. Thunder Lizard

    Thunder Lizard

    Dec 7, 2005
    Lethbridge, AB
    Canadian Distributor, Basson Sound Equipment
    Spinal Tap tried it..........got a hit single, too!

    Talk about mud flaps.da da da......... now where is that dvd?
  11. I play with a three peace guitar, drums & bass. We stay this way for two resons. One the three of us get along well and two the places down here will not pay the bucks for more than a three peace and make anything at it. The other group I play with has a sound person so out of my hands. You don`t like it talk to him or her as the case is sometimes. When we start I set up at what I like and the rest is up to them. Just keep my monitor turned up so I can hear it. It is a five some times six peace gospel group. :bassist:
  12. WalterBush


    Feb 27, 2005
    Yuma, Az
    Full disclosure, I'm a certified Fender technician working in a music store that carries Fender, Yamaha, and Ibanez products among others.
    My singer and I thought that, and I started playing guitar for a hard rock cover band a couple of years ago. It worked out pretty well, although that band went the way of the dodo, it died because of said singer's drug problem, not mix or music issues.
  13. Demon


    Mar 17, 2006
    Sweden, Stockholm
    Hm, everyone seems to have problem with the guitarist, haha, damn cant see how every guitarist is like this, we got a guitarist in school, he barely comes to school, but hes very nice and lol, def not egoisitc or anything.. not yet atleast, but imean, if id start playing guitar itd be cos it sounds cool, and i would def not be that egoistic dip**** like everyone seems to be lol.
  14. Well, You know what I always say.....
  15. thumbman

    thumbman Love that low end

    Nov 2, 2005
    Melbourne, Australia
    There's also the major problem that a lot of guitarists have pretty poor ears. i have found that when they listen to a song and they hear a riff and say "whoa how beefy is that guitar tone" they dont really stop to consider that the BASS is behind it giving it most of its beef...

    so they crank their bass and let rip...yep ok fine...one problem, it makes the band sound like fecal matter. The guitars have no deffinition, the bass cant be heard and the guitar also drowns out the drums and then they have the audacity to complian about going out of time all the time. The other night at reheasal i plugged my head into a P.A speaker...a big 2x15...shook the room to pieces, MADE the guitarist turn down..and you know what...we sounded the best we have in like a year...

    if a guitarist reads this thread...LESS BASS MORE MID...I KNOW IT SOUND **** ON YOUR OWN BUT IN A BAND YOU HAVE A BASS PLAYER...

    (and again any guitarists please read the caps again and again until you realise there is more than one person in the band)

    P.S Sorry i'm a little bitter.
  16. We used to have a lead guitarist that sounded just like the one described in the original post. He had this Line 6 amp and rig, and he'd blamed the volume going up on the fact that "it's a digital amp, I haven't figured it all out yet." He'd say that, like we didn't know he wasn't turning up the volume. We did one gig with him where people in the audience were telling us they couldn't hear the bass, or vocals, or drums. Just the loud ass lead guitar.

    We tried to get him to change, but he wouldn't, so we kicked him out, and haven't regretted it one bit. Basically, some people are just too idiotic and egotistical to fit into a band setting.
  17. Bottom Feeder

    Bottom Feeder encridublee smatr

    Nov 22, 2004
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Hehe Invader. Funny you should mention the Line 6. Thats what he plays through and also his 100 watt Marshall. Not sure how and when hes goin through what. Guess he switches off.
    I explained to him the "phat" sound of his guitar vs. the sound when in a group. Seems like he understood at the time. 20 minutes later would be back to phat. Even when people would tell him he's too loud. And there is no way he can't hear himself.
    He brought in a 30 watt Vox one practice. Best sound we ever had. Problem is he would use volume to make up for lack of phat. That 30 watts could really get loud.
    See the thing is that if a guy is going to be too phat, too loud, too hard rock, too unable to discuss reasonably and they are up-front about it, I can make a decision early on. If they will agree and then slip back into the void, I have a tough time figuring out their stance.
    BTW, this is nothing new. That's why I'm beefing about it. It seems to happen with every guitarist except one. And he never likes to gig.
  18. Watts will never overcome lack of playing ability.
    Winky B.
  19. JansenW


    Nov 14, 2005
    Cambridge, MA
    This worked for my acoustic guitar player. I took his guitar amp and moved it a foot in front of him, angled up and raised so that it became his monitor (we also went thru the PA). He had to turn it down, it was too loud even for him. ;)
  20. ric1312

    ric1312 Banned

    Apr 16, 2006
    chicago, IL.
    Ya, I've been in both the too much volume and not enough work ethic boat a lot to in the past. Bacically my wife is my guitar player and I am the singer. We have the practice space, originals, and learn our parts, and are very flexible and democratic with other players.

    this is what has happened to us over and over: Bass player quits cause he isn't suddenly the leader, or does'nt get his way over something, drummer is an ego maniac who is full of himself, or the whole band agreeing on covers/direction and then tottally going against what they said at the last practice, so nothing gets done.

    Or worse yet, one of the players brings along a girlfriend, who then turns into a yoko, has to be at every practice, then disrupts practice by starting crap with her boyfriend.

    So, basically I had to get rid of the old drummer who was awesome, and call up a guy whos is good but not as good, but has an awsome personality and listens/is flexible, and then I learned bass and turned it into a trio.

    Bam, all the bull**** is gone I think we now have a bright future of gigs and possibility of things getting bigger because the whole band is on the same wavelength.

    Zero Drama.

    This has been the worst problem in all the bands I've been a part of. I've been in ones with awesome players, who people would hear, and be like, "damn why the hell aren't you guys big and on the radio,"

    But, if just one guy get's a bug in his ass for whatever reason... ego/different direction/wanting to sound like band x/baby when he doesn't get his way every time, and isn't on the same wavelenght, then no matter how good the band is it's just not gonna last.

    It's sad but true, but very few players have a professional attitude even the good ones.

    Most of the times it's like their in a vacume and more concerned with what THEY sound like or how loud THEY are.
    Most players just lack the ability to step back and look at songs as a whole and how the instruments sit in a mix, or how songs in a set can make or break a show.

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