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Why are there few 12" loaded bass cabs?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by KampKomfort, Jul 29, 2000.


  1. KampKomfort

    KampKomfort

    Jul 27, 2000
    I'm new to the head/cab world, so I have become curious. Why are 10" and 15" cab systems so prevalent? Why aren't 12"'s used more often? My combo is a 1X12", and I think it's a great compromise between low end and punch.

    Is it because players that go with a head/cab setup are generally less likely to compromise on sound? Just curious...

    KampKomfort

    p.s. Great forum! I've learned so much in the last few days.
     
  2. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    Because most bassists are lemmings [​IMG] They're followers, they use what they see. Manufacturers make what they sell the most of. For example, if Flea or Victor Wooten used reasonably priced 12" loaded cabinets you can bet someone could sell a bunch of them.
     
    Coolhandjjl likes this.
  3. Matthias

    Matthias

    May 30, 2000
    Vienna, Austria
    I think Brad is right.

    But there might be other reasons too and I would be very interested wich these are!

    I have an idea, though:
    Why not 1x12"? Because a 1x15" has more low end and modern 15" drivers are rather fast anyway. The only niche for 1x12": small and light weight combos (every single inch and pound counts)

    But why not 2x12"? I don't know! I guess this would be a great stand alone cab:
    More speaker surface (volume!) than a single 1x15" or 2x10" cab, less weight than a 4x10" cab.
    But maybe most bassists don't like a compromise in sound?

    cheers,
    Matthias
     
  4. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    I have an Eden D212XLT (which I will sell for a low price) that sounds just fine in the low mids and low range. It needs a 210, however to cover the high mids and highs. With my D210XLT, it is a killer setup, but I don't want to be lugging that much gear. If you're into a sound rich in low mids, it's the best. But it doesn't respond as quickly as 10's, and doesn't serve the bottom as well as 15's.
     
  5. B.Hendrix

    B.Hendrix

    Mar 24, 2000
    Atlanta, GA
    Didn't SWR make a 2X12 a few years ago? I haven't played through any 12's so I can't comment on the sound. I know most guitar cabs use 12's - bass seems to be mostly 10's and 15's. Brad may be right on the money!
     
  6. It's difficult to by a 2x12 or 4x12 that isn't voiced for guitar. Sunn make one. I can't think of any others.

    Bit 60s, 4x12 for bass...or 70s, reminicent of H and H and so on.

    I love 12". I use a 1x12 s well.

    Andy
     
  7. JimM

    JimM

    Jan 13, 2000
    Northern California
    I almost bought an eden 2x12,but got the 1x15 because it was a little less weight.I did it with the idea that if the 15 wasnt enough it would be easy to add a 2x10 or another 15.if I had bought the 2x12,then wanted more,I thought it would be hard to balance the system with anything but another 2x12.sounds dumb I know,but it made sense to me.
    but if you're used to lugging a 4x10 or larger,but want something in a single cab with more depth than 10s,and more cut than 15s those 12s sound very nice.loud too.
     
  8. Jeff Gabel

    Jeff Gabel

    Apr 3, 2000
    I know my local store has an Audiophile Ernie Ball stack that has a 2x10 and a 2x12 that sounds real nice. Never heard the 12" cab by it self, but I like it paired up. I do wonder why 4x12's are so popular for guitar, but don't make it over to bass. Guess we all like our backs too much. Maybe some day we will all be struck by this new "idea" by some young inovator. Oh well.
    Thanks,
    Jeff

    ------------------
    "They" call me Mad Cow
     
  9. I saw an SWR Bigfoot (their discontinued 2x12") in a music store down in Madison. I'm going to college there this year so while I was getting books and such I checked out a few stores to see what I'll have around me this year.

    (the rest really doesn't have much to to with 12's..besides the old Ampeg 4x12")

    I didn't plug anything in because I didn't feel like it.

    The shop only had 3 decent basses ( a G&L L2000 and 2 Fenders: an Am Std J and an Am Std P..the rest were almost all Jay Turser..except this disgusting looking BC Rich with some sort of grafiti paintscheme and the worst feeling neck I've ever come across) but the selection of used amps and cabs was great compared to what I have here in central WI:

    Ampeg V4-B sitting on an Apeg 4x12"..I'll have to play through that if its still there the next time I go..that thing must sound sweeeeet. Looked beautiful..you could tell it was old but it was in good shape. Love the quirky green color scheme.

    HUGE Acoustic 450 Head..

    the Bigfoot..

    a Fender Bassman 4x10" (yea I know only guitarists use em)

    and loads of old Trace and Mesa stuff.

    It's cool that I'll be in an environment where I can great equipment at decent prices..here I can only find brand new Eden stuff that I probably won't be able to afford comfortably for a good long time.



    [This message has been edited by steamboat (edited July 29, 2000).]
     
  10. reel big bassist

    reel big bassist

    Mar 27, 2000
    Maryland
    Why don't more bassist use 12's?
    Well I can only speak for myself.

    I don't have a lot of experience with 12's I've only played two. I just don't like their sound , they don't have the depth of a 15 nor the punch and clarity of 10's. To me their like the unwanted hybrid. I don't like their sound.

    But that's just me, I'm more of a 10' guy myself. You may like em. I don't prefer them. Whatever sound makes you happy...if it's a 12 go for it. For me it's 10's, and possibly a 15 on the bottom.

    Sincerly,

    Greg P
     
  11. reel big bassist

    reel big bassist

    Mar 27, 2000
    Maryland
    I was looking around the web yesterday, and I found that Peavey currently makes a 4x12 bass cabinet. Just thought you'd like to know. Check it out at http://www.peavey.com/mi/412txf.html

    P.S. What's your rig?
    Mine Consists of:
    Amp: Ampeg B-2r (200 @8 ohms 350 @4 ohms)
    Cabinet: Homemade 4x10
    Other: I also have an Ampeg SVT-300 Power Amp (bascicly the power section of an svt amp)And am hoping to put a peavey max pre on top of it.
     
  12. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    I have, among other things, a Genz Benz 12T, which is a single 12" with a tweeter in a very lightweight enclosure. It's fine for practice but there's no free lunch... on a gig it would have to be paired with another cab.

    With speaker and cabinet technology where it is today I have absolutely no doubt that someone could build a kickass 2-12 (vented or ported) cabinet that was both portable and affordable. There's little demand for it, I think, because so few have been exposed to a very good 12" speaker, they do exist. People go for 10's and 15's because that's what's available. The exceptions, like the 8's from Euphonic Audio, require a fairly serious financial commitment [​IMG]

    I currently have 10's, 12's and 15's. None of them sound muddy or slow. While the Eminence 15's sound pretty good, the EV Black Shadow exhibits a surprising range for a high wattage (400w) 15. I just bought a Genz Benz 210XB because I was surprised at how tight it sounded even with the extended low end. My point is, all of these are easier to find than a well designed 12 cab. I'll stick with what I think the reason is because, as far as a killer 12 goes, it could be done.

    BTW I didn't mean lemmings in a purely derogatory way [​IMG], using what other's use can be a safe way to at least get in the same ballpark as far as sound.
     
  13. I recently added a Peavey 412 cab to my rig in place of one of my 410 cabinets. I am completely thrilled with the new sound. This setup is allowing me to cut through just fine, and I can feel the earth move again. I was a diehard 10" guy for many years, but I am very glad I tried the 12's. [​IMG]
     
  14. I recently added a Peavey 412 cab to my rig in place of one of my 410 cabinets. I am completely thrilled with the new sound. This setup is allowing me to cut through just fine, and I can feel the earth move again. I was a diehard 10" guy for many years, but I am very glad I tried the 12's. [​IMG]
     
  15. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Psycho Bass Guy:
    &lt;snip&gt;...The fabled Marshall stack was actually SUPPOSED to be for bass.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    well, now, I always thought the fabled MArshall stack was designed by Jim Marshall primarily for Pete Townshend, and originally existed as an 8x12, getting cut in half for reasons of portability. At least, that's what Jim Marshall and Pete Townshend claim....

    [​IMG]
    http://www.marshallamps.com/images/archive/30years/30yearsp1.htm

     
  16. When carvin was making 12" bass cabinets they couldn't sell them so they switched to 10" speakers. We are fortunate to live in an era of smaller more efficiant speakers.

    ------------------
    Carl
     
  17. noweapon

    noweapon

    Feb 10, 2000
    Just so you know, SWR makes still makes a 2x12 cab in the combo form: The "silverado special" It has A 350 watt head, 2 12's and a foster horn. I played one of these at a gig and it ROCKED!!!! It blasted through the mix better than my carvin 4x10.
     
  18. I got it wrong? The Marshall website has it wrong, you mean.

    PBG, whether or not 'I got it wrong' does not entitle you to take such as direct, offensive tone with people. This is why you tick people off, even when you are right.

    And are you right here? It was you who said the Marshall stack was dveloped as a bass amp, not me. It's stacks were were talking here, not the 4x12....

    Just a friendly word of warning....

    [​IMG]

    Andy

    [This message has been edited by Andy Daventry (edited August 01, 2000).]
     
  19. Klaus

    Klaus

    Jul 12, 2000
    I recently bought a Silverado Special from SWR which is a combo with 2x12" and a Foster horn. The sound is really great and with an additional 15" cabinet you´ll get the depth you need for EUB´s. But even without it is a great gear but expensive. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KampKomfort:
    I'm new to the head/cab world, so I have become curious. Why are 10" and 15" cab systems so prevalent? Why aren't 12"'s used more often? My combo is a 1X12", and I think it's a great compromise between low end and punch.

    Is it because players that go with a head/cab setup are generally less likely to compromise on sound? Just curious...

    KampKomfort

    p.s. Great forum! I've learned so much in the last few days.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

     
  20. Larzito

    Larzito

    Aug 1, 2000
    Dallas, Texas
    I just added an Eden 212 to my rig. I was looking for a single cabnet that was lighter than the industry standard Eded 410XLT (98lbs). I've played Eden 410 and 210 cabs for years and have always thought they were great cabs, but wanted to experiment, looking for something with a more "round" sound. Always gig with a cabnet before you sing its praises! By itself it sounded cool, but with the band at the gig, it was GREAT. Punchy AND clear, with fat notes on the G and D strings too. Room filling without sounding loud. I don't slap that much anymore, so I don't need the super tightness of 10s quite as much (but its not bad for slapping). Plus, it seemed as though the notes didn't have to be coaxed out of the cab as much. I always suspected that I was having to have a harder attack to get the proper 10 sound, and now that has been validated. Plus, the cab is fairly large (without being overly heavy at 74 lbs (Eden 210 XLT is 68 lbs) which allows for the movement of LOTS of air. If you play mostly fingerstyle, with some occasional thump and slap, this cabnet is one to look in to. Don't compare in a store, take it to a gig where you can see how well it fills the room...that's where it counts. The 212 is on the out with Eden discontinuing their cab, leaving only the SWR Silverado (which is a tasty sounding combo). Too bad, I think I've found the ultimate compromise between the beefy 15 and the tight 10. It really takes 4 10s to do it right, and then you are hauling a monster cab (its heavier at 3am than before the gig at 8pm...trust me). Lately, I've been using my 210 XLT because I was tired of hauling so much...but the sound suffered. The 212 hit it just right. Don't be shy, try one. And leave the conventional thought behind.