Why doesn't my new amp sound as good as my old one?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by pickles, Oct 10, 2005.

  1. Its the cabs!

    25 vote(s)
  2. Switching amps stink, get a real amp!

    4 vote(s)
  3. Terra cables are IT, your rig now lacks pixie dust!

    2 vote(s)
  4. Not all SVP-Pros are created equal, the old one had better tubes or something.

    3 vote(s)
  5. Its the 30hz filter and/or clip limiter.

    1 vote(s)
  6. Something you havn't thought of.

    3 vote(s)
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. pickles

    pickles Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    About three years ago, I had an amp that I think had ultimate tone. I then got burned out on playing in bands, moved to hawaii to surf for a couple years ... eventually came back and put together a new rig. I've put together a rig that sounds really good ... but not quite as good as the old one. Which factors do y'all think are contributing most to the difference.

    Old Rig:

    Ampeg SVP-Pro
    Eden WT-1000 bridged
    Eden D-115XLT 8 ohm
    Eden D-210XLT 8 ohm
    Terra Labs power cables

    New Rig:

    Ampeg SVP-Pro
    QSC PLX1602, 30hz filter and clip limiter engaged, stero
    Aguilar GS410 4 ohm
    Aguilar GS212 4 ohm OR SWR Big Ben 8 ohm.
    "Normal" speakon power cables

    The new one sounds good, but is just missing some of the magic the old one had. A little less thickness, a little less punch and depth. Not as coherent of a sound, occasionally slightly harsh, a little over-scooped.

    I think its a sum of a few of the factors in the poll. Lets see what you think.
  2. Ok, well, first off, power cables dont make a difference, they either work or they dont

    You are using a different power amp, but more importantly completelly different cabs, you used to use a 1x15 and a 2x10, and now its a 4x10 and a 2x12, if you went back to using a 1x15 and a 2x10 i think you'd have near enough your old sound back, i think you are basically missing the umph of the 15, and the make of cabs themselves will contibute a difference
  3. SteveC


    Nov 12, 2004
    North Dakota
    I'm gonna say cabs. Eden and Aguilar are quite different.
  4. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Cabs for sure. You probably had better bottom from the 1x15 and with only three point sources interfering with each other's radiation patterns and causing comb filtering all over the spectrum instead of six the midrange of the old system would have been much better as well.
  5. the bigger question is WHY didn't you make sure before you bought it? Not being difficult, but we're talking alot of coin here...I'd definitely have tried it out many times before committing the $$$ onnit.
  6. pickles

    pickles Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    There are not many shops that allow on the gig tryouts, and the ones that do don't neccesarlily have the pieces of gear you want. I found the GS410 used locally and worked from there.

    I agree with you guys that its mostly the cabs ... which is why I bought a 210XLT this weekend :D
  7. pickles

    pickles Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    Thanks Bill, I've never heard of comb filtering before, but what you are saying makes a lot of sense, and really does describe my feeling about the sound right now!

    And hey, while I've got your attention ... the old rig seemed to sound better when the 1x15 was on top of the 2x10 ... any explanation there?
  8. I still would think the shop, with the potential of a sale that big, would have been accomodating enough to let you in pre-or-post business hours to run it thru the paces with your bass and all that.

    Truly am sorry you're not getting the sound you want, hope that's remedied with the new cab / cabs.
  9. pickles

    pickles Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    Aw man its no big deal ... anybody else would be perfectly happy with the aggie cabs ... I'm just a perfectionist and habitual tinkerer :D

    There are no aggie dealers in my area, or ampeg, or QSC. Besides, since I buy used I can turn these things around for the cost of shipping. It was worth a try, but I think I'm going back to Eden speakers.
  10. DaveDeVille

    DaveDeVille ... you talkin' to me ?? Supporting Member

    i don't know exactly why , but i do know that Mr. Jim Bergantino recommends that very set-up .
    i reckon he knows what he's talking about ... :D

    i took his advise and run my rig with my three ten's on bottom ,
    and my fifteen on top .
  11. Because with the 15 closer to ear level it'll be that which is dominant, and that'll be the sound your hearing and prefering (note the lack of a 15 in your current setup)

    I dont think either is better, i personally prefer 10's ontop so that at ear level you can hear the notes clearer and punchier and the 15 "throws" the sound into the crowd more, but each to thier own :)
  12. The preamp is the same, power amps add very little coloration of the sound. Cabs all have unique voices/response.

    I'd say the odds overwhelmingly favor the cab's as the culprit.

    Regarding the 15 sounding better on top, I'd say you prefer the sound of 15's instead of the sound of 2x10's. Less midrange response, or lack of twinkly highs from the 2x10s? The 210's have a tweeter that the 15 doesn't maybe?

    Regardless, maybe think of stacking 2 15's instead of a mixed bag of 10's and 15's. Sounds like even on your old "dream" rig, you didn't like the sound of 210's as much as a 15.

  13. pickles

    pickles Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    The 115XLT does have a tweet, and you're right I do really love the sound of that cab. But consider that I was often up at a microphone, a good distance away from my rig, and the sound seemed slighly better with the 15 on top. I wondered if it had to do with the bottom port on the 15 being next to the top port of the 210 ... something like that.

    I'd love to try a 215XLT sometime, though I wouldn't want to have to carry it.
  14. 15's tend to sound better from a bit of a distance, thats probably it . . .
  15. pickles

    pickles Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    One more question for you fine folks. Assuming I can't procure a 115XLT before my next gig, which do you think would sound better:

    GS410 + D210XLT or
    GS212 + D210XLT

    I'm leaning toward the 6 10s, since the "scoop" on the 212 is one of the things that I think has been bugging me.
  16. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    In theory the 15 should be on the bottom so it can couple the lows better off the floor. But what your ears are most sensitive to is the midrange, and with the 15 on top they'd be primarily hearing the single point source of that driver, which would have a smoother response than the two sources horizontally arrayed by the 2x10. What probably would have been best is the 15 on the bottom and the 2x10 atop it, rotated so that the tens were vertically aligned. With all point sources vertically arrayed the comb filtering issue is greatly reduced, if not eliminated entirely.
  17. pickles

    pickles Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    I'll definately be trying that!
  18. Jackbass


    Dec 19, 2003
    Paris (FRANCE)
    I never appreciated aguilar amps, and I think it could be a reason.
    Eden ones are very good, more dynamic.
  19. TheChariot


    Jul 6, 2004
    Boston, MA
    Back before I tried Aguilar or Eden... in my head, I figured they would sound somewhat similar due to the price range that they sort of share.

    Way off. Everything is different between the two... heads, preamps, and cabs are at different parts of the spectrum.

    It's your cabs, no doubt. Go back to your original guns, and you should be quite satisfied. :)
  20. pickles

    pickles Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    Thanks for confirming my thoughts, everyone. I also thing that this pre isn't quite as good as the one I used to have, but thats a much smaller difference.