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Why Jeff Berlin should be president of all music education

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by John Wentzien, Nov 10, 2009.


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  1. John Wentzien

    John Wentzien

    Jun 25, 2007
    Elberta, AL
    Artist:TC Electronic RH450 bass system (original test-pilot)
    Paco Benitez said: “I remember those great Jeff Berlin lessons in Guitar Player magazine from the 80's. In those days all bass players had was a couple of pages in a guitar magazine. But they were well worth it. There was a wealth of information ... The Bach prelude, the Dixie transcription, the Cannonball Adderley solo... just to name a few. They helped me bacome a better bassist. The years have passed and I still go back to them and learn. Thank you for that Mr Berlin.”

    Jeff answered: The educational material that I used to write in Guitar Player and later Bass Player, plus the video that I did for Starlicks reflected the attitude in the “Ha-Ha” 1980’s replete with wrestlers, actors and not too much content (one guy did a video as Groucho Marx.) To this day I ask people not to buy my old Starlicks video, but, instead look for the DVD that I recently put out with Mel Bay. I did that one totally differently to make up for the video that I made 20 years ago.

    Not much of what I wrote in those columns during the 1980’s-1990’s was really all that educationally meaningful, but it did start me thinking about what it really took to get one to learn how to play well, especially when you looked at what was being offered in those days as ‘good musical advice”! Music was definitely not on everybody’s mind at that time, even while superfluous musical advice was being dispensed.

    When Eddie Van Halen came along with his two handed tapping style, people wanted to know how he “did it”, Guitar Player magazine decided to “academize” and explain his, and other luminary’s playing styles. Soon they approached other guitarists and asked them to write about different musical playing principles. Tommy Tedesco used to publish charts from his sessions and explain what instruments he used and how the session went down. Howard Roberts also contributed thoughts and exercises. As more interesting guitarists started to happen along, the editors started to look for players who might be interested in explaining how to play more like these guys via guitar-esque exercises. Eventually the lessons branched off into various “stylist” descriptive columns. Tablature for non-readers became a standard, and terms such as “chops”, “licks” and “techniques” because primary in academic magazine article lessons. Musical advice itself usually took a back seat, and this was something that I noticed immediately. Some columnists who were writing the lessons didn’t offer much advice that included music to make a meaningful column, even while these guys were well known players in their own right; they could play but, they couldn’t always describe the elements to learn how. At least this is what I thought!

    Then Guitar Player and then Bass Player magazine asked me to write columns for them. Mine weren’t always the best columns either. I had to learn how to proceed while I was seeking out ideas to write about. But, even if I joked around in my columns, and if my columns contained silly songs and exercises, they were still musically content rich; only a player who knew about music and how to represent it on their instrument could take what I was offering and make use of it. Other players, I had hoped, might become inspired enough to try and raise their sites a little bit and try to join the more schooled guys. You see, if everybody insisted on a higher standard of musical learning through the columns that we wer writing, then players all over the world would have been influenced to learn and play at a higher level. But, this didn't happen with the other columnists.

    Because I was a conservatory AND a jazz trained musician, (the only other two who falls into the same category that I can think of is Stanley Clarke and Miroslav Vitous) I had a level of musical experience and understanding that most players didn’t have. I didn’t necessarily play better than the other guys, but I knew more in certain musical ways. From my varied background, it was easy for me to see that the guys that were writing columns and even guys who were offering playing advice in their interviews didn’t know about music well enough to give the advice that they were offering. Some guys offered such awful musical advice that it would make my hair stand on end. What really amazed me at that time was that few players in music seemed to see what I saw!

    The people who ran the music magazine industry, the editors, their columnists, their writers, and most of the guys that they interviewed had no idea that they were dispensing bad musical advice to a community of fresh-faced innocent readers. These readers were fans, musically not-clued-in about much at all. Columnists would write musically lame stuff, the editors loved it, and the fans were enjoying what they got. Everybody was happy but me! I knew ******** musical advice when I saw it, and without identifying anybody by name, I told them all, as a group, that they were offering terrible musical advice to their readers! It was a Kumbaya sing-along with the editors, columnists, and their fans, until I started to throw stink bombs into the campfire.

    I would debunk everything that I knew was bogus, and the more that I did, the madder people became! Understand, it was hard for me to hold back.Under the circumstances, I think that I acted with a great deal of restraint considering the garbage that was being offered as significant musical advice. One columnist recommended that his readers put marshmallows, and erasers on their bass necks and press on them to determine touch differences. The same guy told his readers to practice in a dark closet, so that they could develop their ear, not using their vision to play a fretless instrument in tune. George Carlin once made a comment that always came to my mind after reading these articles and seeing how much people enjoyed them: "Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider." People would argue to stay exactly where they were in their belief about learning how to play, which is the only reason why the Carlin quote still makes sense to me.

    As time past, I noticed that the columnists were telling their readers to use metronomes more and more. At the beginning, this didn’t bother me until after a while these devices became THE device to learn how to play in time. Principally untrained readers weren’t offered any musical advice whatsoever, but instead, they were told to always practice with a device whose only use in music is to prepare a performance, that is, an unyielding, unrelenting statement of where the quarter note should be.

    These guys weren’t using metronomes, they were relying on them! Because of the columnists' persistant message to practice with a click, a message that continues to this day, students have not learned how to play music and develop time in a correct manner. Metronome teachers have pretty much ruined any chance for bass players to ever learn properly how to become good players because they have eliminated where good time comes from, playing and knowledge experience.

    That didn't stop me from protesting this dumb learning principle! I piped in and said to the majority of readers that they were learning incorrectly. And they were definitely not in the mood to hear what I had to say. When I used to write this, the columnists, their readers, the magazine editors, and some magazine writers went “nuclear”! And, instead of stating what most great players already knew about where good time came from, these guys dug in for a siege. They made it personal and they still do. They were livid, they were inconsolable for what I had dared to say and some guys today are still furious! I was the first guy ever to identify bogus academic lessons for what they were and the players who propagated these falsehoods weren’t pleased with me at all about calling them all onto the carpet!

    I am serious; people went into a blind rage! You would have thought that I called their mother a bad name! And in a way, I did something close to this! I called them all, as a group, inexperienced, incapable of offering good musical advice and they took umbrage about this (go figure!). Seriously, I can understand why! Maybe they should have been angry with me! I threatened their positions and, sometimes not in a nice way, and some have never forgiven me about it!

    With anger in the air, with resentment for my calling out the majority to account for themselves, in this regard I consider myself an academic trend-setter and the only voice anywhere in the bass world, to this day, to this very minute, who put my reputation on the line for coming forward to debunk academic lessons that so many hold so dear, that many have actually lost any chance at musical improvement to. The problem is that, to understand where I am coming from, one must understand music itself. In this era of low musical interest, this is not likely. Being a guitarist or a bassist doesn’t make you a musician and this principle applies to the famous group more than anyone else. We are viewed as holding higher standards than the non famous guys. Ultimately it came down to a general fact that those who didn’t understand my educational points, generally didn’t understand music. The two principles had to go hand in hand or else my points logically would seem odd. In fact, I almost regard anybody who cannot understand the true source of good time or quality musical information as a non-musician even while they are a player of an instrument, because time comes from a musical place and one must understand musical things to know this.


    Yesterday’s teachers utaught licks, It is the same today! Go anywhere on Youtube and see if you can find anyone who teaches musical advice along with good musical examples to practice (Scott Henderson comes to mind.) Players today teach fingering patterns, and they demonstrate their licks. It is a case of "Simon Says", no music, but imitate this technique!

    To this day players of all statures and their teachers cannot imagine a musical life without a click. But, the dedication to non-musical principles doesn’t end there. Below is a list of popular principles that many hold as academically meaningful, a list that totally disagree with in terms of becoming a better player by working on in a classroom or a DVD or a school. Avoid anything that includes the words:

    1. Groove
    2. Chops
    3. Licks
    4. Develop Your Technique
    5. Any lesson with the word “Studio” in it
    6. Practice with Metronomes
    7. Slap Lessons
    8. Tap Lessons
    9. Fretless Lessons
    10. Two-Hand Technique
    11. Learn Scales
    12. Improve Your Speed
    13. String Crossings
    14. Learn Riffs
    15. Get a Gig
    16. Fretboard Diagrams
    17. Develop your Pocket
    18. anything with the word “Tablature” connected to it, and most recently,
    19. Shifting on the Fly

    Remember that self taught players are beholden to nobody and nothing. You are what you are, and that is that. But, if you have a teacher or attend a school, then the rules change. Now you, and they have a different responsibility than the self-taught guy. Here is your partial list of responsibilities, things that your teachers should be showing to you. These suggestion are 100% guaranteed to help you to become a much improved player.

    1. Practice music slowly
    2. Practice music out of time if needs be
    3. Learn to read music
    4. Practice factual, harmonically rich music
    5. Don’t use a metronome when you practice music
    6. Don’t apply your lessons on gigs (they aren’t meant for application)
    7. Learn music in 12 keys
    8. Learn chords and chord-tones, not scales, at least for a while.
    9. Learn jazz music for academic reasons (no music even comes close to teaching you what jazz can show you)
    10. Review your music lessons
    11. Don’t make performing your music lessons your goal. Play them. Regard them. Review them.
    12. Don’t worry about mistakes. Simply fix them no matter how often they occur.
    13. Practice playing lighter on your instrument. You don’t need overly developed muscles to play an instrument.
    14. Don’t practice your music lessons for hours. Break up your practice regiment. Take breaks and then come back later to continue
    15. Practice at least 5 days a week
    16. Don’t use a tuner in your lessons. Use your ear and a pitchfork.

    There’s no controversy here, these are all documented and established learning principles. It is only that the non-musical teachers do not know about them. These aren’t my rules! It is happening everyday all over the world, just not supported by most contemporary teachers, usually in American and Europe. Why? I couldn’t tell you, but it is still true!

    Gandhi said this; “An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it!”

    This was a smart man and he perfectly identified why so many players have a problem with me. I do speak the truth because I am more prepared to identify it than other players. I suppose that the perceived arrogance that I will be identified with for saying this supercedes the message that propagated the message itself. Too bad because some of these guys are willing to go down with the ship instead of opting for music in their music lessons.

    Thanks for reading.

    (This is from a bulletin Jeff Berlin posted on Myspace)
     
  2. nortonrider

    nortonrider

    Nov 20, 2007
    Too many words and not enough desire to read them all,
    so I'll just agree with you.
     
  3. 4001

    4001 SUSPENDED

    Good read. Thanks for posting it.

    Jeff knows his stuff.
    I just wish his tone was more like it was back when he played with Bill Bruford.
    Too much chorus effect nowdays.
    Other than that, he's awesome.
     
  4. JTE

    JTE Supporting Member

    Mar 12, 2008
    Central Illinois, USA
    Cue up "Cult of Personality" sound clip here... :)

    Too bad. Jeff has been an inspiration to me about teaching and learnng from his first columns in "International Musician & Recording World". His teaching makes sense. He says "These guys weren’t using metronomes, they were relying on them!" I've questioned Jeff specifically and personally about his metronome position (and also his fretless bassists assertion) and find he makes sense. But it's all about the nuances, which lots of people are too lazy to read through.

    I still recommend a 'nome. But I recommend that you learn to USE it to teach yourself steady time, not to rely on it for the time. If you use it to check your progress in developing your internal clock, and you use to to make music right, then it'll work.

    Anyway, thanks to the OP for posting this!

    John
     
  5. onlyclave

    onlyclave

    Oct 28, 2005
    Seattle
    Jeff nails it right on the head. Thank you.
     
  6. Thanks for the post.It's nice to read something he said in context instead of reading chopped up soundbites.
     
  7. John Wentzien

    John Wentzien

    Jun 25, 2007
    Elberta, AL
    Artist:TC Electronic RH450 bass system (original test-pilot)
    Exactly!:cool:
     
  8. John Wentzien

    John Wentzien

    Jun 25, 2007
    Elberta, AL
    Artist:TC Electronic RH450 bass system (original test-pilot)
    Here is some more from Jeff--

    Booty said: “Once again, all valid points. Throughout history, the smartest, most profound teachers have been ridiculed and shunned by their peers, only to be proven correctly later on. This is due, in part to people fearing what they do not understand, and they won't bother to TRY what it is your telling them is flawed with their teaching approach. I whole-heartedly agree with you, so many teachers out there want to teach you "licks", or "chops", when the study and application of music is what budding musicians need to become better. Licks and chops will come with time when you understand your instrument, and you develop your skill sets. Once again, I am awed by your non-conventional teaching methods.”

    Jeff returned: Interestingly, my non-conventional point is to learn music well! This is part of what makes me controversial! Imagine that! I also believe that if music isn’t the central reason for a lesson then you will not learn anything significant enough to justify that lesson. But, most player/teachers think that I am wrong about this! When you teach via musical methods, then either the student will or won’t adapt to musical principles because these players either are, or are not capable in musical things. Music is the “Great Exposer”; it makes clear immediately one’s true internal musical abilities known right away. But, if you teach groove or building chops, then the musical requirements are practically non-existent because a groove usually requires a repeated line, something that everybody can already play, and chops building exercises don’t include musical principles because you aren’t being asked to learn music. You are being asked to play faster or longer..

    This is where my non-tolerant attitude comes from; I am way, way more interested in a positive outcome for students instead of protecting the sensibilities of their teachers who resent me calling them out onto the carpet. They act as if they know their subject and I say that, as a community, almost none of them know what they are doing, even if they, as a community they think that I am wrong because I don't even include a portion of where they are coming from. But, what is there to include in a music lesson other than music; if you water down the gravy then the gravy is thin and weak. What is the point of including lessons about topics that everybody eventually learns on their own anyway. Everybody!

    I’ve said many times that if the teachers and players have a problem with me and what I say, then they are invited to show me the errors in my belief system. They should state how music is not a solid method to learn and that my attitude that learning music exclusively is a flawed principle! Then they should identify the flaws! I would be interested to see what some might say and so if anyone locates any kind of response to this question, please forward it to me so that I can comment about them. Many thanks! (P.S. Anybody can copy whatever I say and post it anywhere that you would like.There are no secrets with me).

    Lars said: “I saw the movie Mona Lisa’s Smile yesterday. In the movie, the art teacher introduced the students to the concept “Paint your own Van Gogh by numbers” – you know where you get a canvas with numbered fields on it, and you just fill in the colors that fit with the numbers. I think that this concept is the painted arts equivalent to tablatures in guitar and bass playing. It is a (maybe a good) way to come to a quick result – a painting or a tune, but you don’t learn a thing in the process. And the quality is poor.”

    Jeff returned: If your focus is to have fun with no other responsibility, then there is nothing wrong with painting by numbers, cooking a few recipes, or plucking a few guitar notes. But if you have a deeper feeling to play and wish for some kind of musical success, then this type of approach to music won‘t help you! You made a good offering Lars!

    Martin offered: “Great article with solid principles. It is good to learn techniques but if you don't understand it musically then you can't move on as a musician.”

    Jeff counter-offered: Not only can’t you move on, but you can barely begin! Besides, every self taught guy who has technique on their instrument learned it without paying a teacher to acquire this skill. Every single one of them! Imagine that! No teacher taught these guys their special approaches that they employ which means that unless these guys make certain to teach music in their lessons to you, you are only learning either their licks and techniques. This is what listening to their CD's is for. If one hears their favorite player playing and doesn't know how they "did it" then usually they will take what they heard and innovate a new method of playing to imitate that style. This is what Eddie Van Halen did when he heard Allan Holdsworth and didn't know how he got so many notes out of his guitar. So Eddie simply used two hands and a brand new playing style was born. But, if he saw Allan play on Youtube and found out that Allan just played a legato approach with his left hand, then Eddie would never have searched around inside himself to come up with the playing style that he invented.

    Chubby Woodchucker said: “Most of this is just evidence of the further dumbing down of American society. This is the reason that guys like Jeff, Bromberg, McLaughlin, and Clarke sell out arenas in Europe and Asia but can't get arrested in the US.”

    Jeff returned: Absolutely true! One gig that Scott Henderson, Dennis Chambers and I just played a couple of weeks ago was outside of Seoul, Korea where we played in front of 15,000 music fans. They went absolutely nuts for the great music that we provided. This almost put us into the Metallica audience size, at least for one gig anyway!

    In America, if you don't dance, rap or sing, you are nothing anymore.

    Thanks for Reading.
     
  9. KNURRR

    KNURRR

    Oct 12, 2009
    Nice, thank you for posting! It was very interesting.
     
  10. BobaFret

    BobaFret

    Jan 22, 2008
    I struggle a bit with the metronome part but I understand where he is coming from. I like the way that he approaches music with the desire to understand it more than be able to do it. We can't all play like the best out there ( I can't anyway ) but we can take away the same musical approach that they used "if we understand it".

    Thanks for posting.
     
  11. Handyman

    Handyman

    Sep 4, 2007
    Austin, TX
    Repeating an unusual opinion doesn't make it part of "documented and established learning principles".
     
  12. EADG mx

    EADG mx

    Jul 4, 2005
    Jeff is what today's (lazy) music education needs. Always great to hear what he has to say.
     
  13. PB+J

    PB+J

    Mar 9, 2000
    arlington va
    This seems pretty typical of Berlin--needlessly combative and authoritarian. He can't teach in a public forum without putting someone else down. I'm a teacher. I know 1000 times more than my students. But I learn something new from them every semester.

    There's zero doubt he is highly technically accomplished. He's a phenominal player in every sense. Im sure I could learn a lot from him.

    That doesn't mean he's some kind of perfect oracle of wisdom, or that all his opinion/techniques/pronouncements are true all the time. We are talking about music here, not physics. There are 1000 bass players I'd rather listen to than Berlin--none of them can play as many notes in as short a time. So what? music making isn't really about accumulating knowledge for its own sake, or about leveling the opposition, it's about communicating

    Berlin used to boast that his great reading skills got him a gig with Yes. That's impressive. But who would you say is the more interesting/important influential bassist--Berlin, with his apparently faultless education, or Chris Squire, the guy Berlin was hired to imitate?

    Like I said, the guy is a wonderful technician and a stone perfect reader, and he's a way better bass player than me. He seems to have a talent for blowing things up.
     
  14. AltGrendel

    AltGrendel Squire Jag SS fan.

    May 21, 2009
    Mid-Atlantic USA.
    BTW, his "fretless bassists assertion" is that most/all fretless players sound like Jaco.
     
  15. i think if his central point is that the guitar/bass gods that music rags hire to write lesson columns are probably better players than teachers i agree 100%.....combative he may be,but he would hardly be the first one pilloried for being right.....

    thinking carefully about what berlin has to say would be far more profitable than dismissing it simply because one is offended by the tone......
     
  16. manutabora

    manutabora

    Aug 14, 2007
    Iowa City, IA
    I think the reason why people don't like Jeff Berlin is because in the guitar/bass guitar realm, we don't really have any great tradition of pedagogy. In classical music there are great pedagogues, like Dorothy Delay, who teaches violin at the Juilliard School. If you look at a list of her former students, it reads like a who's who of great soloists, concertmasters, etc. If a principle is put forth by Mrs. Delay, very few would question it because her students have proven her as a teacher.
    We don't really have this going on in the bass world, with a few exceptions. For example, there are some people who studied with Jaco, such as Michael Manring. However, most bass players out there are not really associated with a particular "school" or teacher, because a lot of us are self taught. Therefore, since we have never held an important teacher in high regard when it comes to learning our instruments, we are offended when somebody comes along and basically asks for that kind of respect.
    I pretty much agree with what he says. As far as the metronome goes, here's how I understand it. Rock music generally holds a steady tempo all the way through a song. Therefore, it kind of makes sense for rock bassists to learn to play with a metronome because that kind of outcome is desirable in that particular genre. But if you listen to classical music, say Brahms, you'll find that very few pieces hold a steady tempo all the way through. Harmonic changes, cadences, melody, etc. will dictate tempo changes. At some places you may want to slow down a little bit to highlight a very important moment in the music. I do think it would be good for all musicians to have this kind of sensibility. However, in a rock band context it is not really necessary. Classical music is not the only case where this applies, in jazz it is important too. I very good contemporary example of someone who handles tempo in a musically sensitive way is drummer Jeff Hamilton. Listen to his trio play, it's really quite interesting and if you are used to the unchanging tempo approach, at first it might seem even a bit offensive.
    This is how I see the metronome issue. My allusions to classical music and jazz are not because I am an elitist or because I want to feel important, but because I do think that those two kinds of music can help us learn many things.
     
  17. John Wentzien

    John Wentzien

    Jun 25, 2007
    Elberta, AL
    Artist:TC Electronic RH450 bass system (original test-pilot)
    Jeff: "If anybody would like to post my responses on Talkbass, I am OK with this. We can get these guys to join the chat."

    Bill Buck said: “Jeff, interpretation and phrasing, how do you approach these? There is a case to be made for everyone finding these techniques on their own, yet a teacher may guide them through the subtleties of a piece/improvisation. There are techniques a student may have that are weak, vibrato, or playing legato passages etc, do you cover these as a part of a lesson, say playing through Autumn Leaves changes, or playing the melody? I don't believe you've mentioned these aspects in bulletins.”

    Jeff returned: Yes, a teacher can certainly guide a student about these issues, but these are articulation issues and don’t require too much attention! Some, of course, but nothing major!

    Nortonrider said (regarding my previous long post): "Too many words and not enough desire to read them all, so I'll just agree with you.”

    Jeff returned: And really big words too!

    JTE said: “I still recommend a 'nome. But I recommend that you learn to USE it to teach yourself steady time, not to rely on it for the time. If you use it to check your progress in developing your internal clock, and you use to make music right, then it'll work.”

    Jeff comes back: No it won’t! Your interest in steady time has no source of music nor musical reasoning connected with it. Few people actually do have a reason to acquire metronomic time, except that they heard that they should practice this way. Further, one can’t train for a live playing experience with a metronome because the very instant that live musicians enter the equation, then the metronome lesson is negated completely, replaced by a human, breathing, and totally different time experience. For this reason, music is never going to be “right” by checking one’s internal clock with a metronome as you suggest. Another reason is that nobody has an internal clock that can be accurately checked with a metronome because practically nobody anywhere in the world hears or feels time this way.

    BabaFret said: “We can't all play like the best out there (I can't anyway ) but we can take away the same musical approach that they used "if we understand it".

    Jeff returned: Exactly! Well said! In other words, if you learn well, you will, at least hit a higher level of playing ability than if you don’t. Music guarantees some kind of significant playing improvement (if you decide to learn this way). But, licks, grooves, etc. only offer you the most temporary and principally non-extensive lessons, not applicable in the very next moment or tune because this musical moment or tune isn’t like the one that you trained to groove on. In other words, you can teach me to boil eggs, but this doesn’t mean that I’ve learned how to cook an omelet.
     
  18. unclejane

    unclejane Guest

    Jul 23, 2008
    I watch the Berlin/Bailey debates over on bassplayer.tv at least twice a week, when I first found them there I probably watched them every day for about 2 months. Ya'll should go watch those, they're absolutely fantastic fun to watch.

    A lot of the ideas Jeff expresses in the OP he also expresses in those debates but Steve Bailey adds some of his own rebuttals too which really add to the whole discussion.

    If I were still pursuing playing professionally I couldn't imagine a better education than learning from _both_ of those guys. I'm a fretless player which is why I've been a follower of Steve Bailey for a while and I think he makes some points about the fretless in particular. But I like what JB says too and still think that all said and done he's probably the finest bassist of them all with no disrespect to anyone else of course.

    As for the FL in particular, it's an interesting contrast. Jeff's attitude is that learning to intonate on the fretless is your responsibility and is another of those things that's just integral to learning your instrument as you become a musician (like "chops" and good time etc). SB, OTOH, disagrees - he says instead it's about _controlling_ intonation more than just learning to play in tune. He also sees nothing wrong with specific training on the fretless for learning to intonate and considers it a crucial part of learning fretless because of that. IMO both completely valid points, even tho they sort of come from different points of view.

    I do think I'm a better player than I am a musician. Probably a much better player than musician. I'm willing to bet Jeff is right about why that is. That's why I still wouldn't mind studying with him (if I had a new set of hands that is ;)).

    LS
     
  19. unclejane

    unclejane Guest

    Jul 23, 2008
    Well, no, he clarifies this in the Berlin/Bailey debates. Instead he means that the fretless bass was _so_ tied to Jaco in the beginning, because Jaco was the innovator of the FL, that FL players originally had that sort of "jaco-clone" stigma to deal with _way_ more than fretted players did. He does also admit that he made that statement a while ago - nowadays fretless is a little more of a 1st-class-citizen in the bass world than it was at first and so has a lot more influences to draw on than it did.

    But for instance he asks the audience "who invented the bass?".... everyone kind of hums and haws, not much agreement. Then he asks "who invented fretless bass"?.... instantly Jaco comes to mind...

    That's what his point was regarding that....

    LS
     
  20. Fergie Fulton

    Fergie Fulton

    Nov 22, 2008
    Braintree
    Retrovibe Artist rota
    LOL forgive me i have read this over and over and this is a typical Jeff rant based in no substance or relevance in a modern teaching society. I agree with a fair bit of what Jeff says and agree with it, if it were say 40 years ago. But we are in modern times with a different education system and methods for a different generation. This is comparable to a rant by an old man about how things were better in his day. If jeff wants to communicate then he needs common ground, his metronome stance negates most of what he says because he won't accept its wrong. It is how the metronome is used that can be a problem...not the metronome itself. Metronomes don't kill timing...people do.

    Again Jeff uses misguided quotes and analogies to justify his points... Jeff just let it go, and you do what you do and let other do what they do. You are the one that has a problem with the way the music world has organised itself, the vast majority of the music world does not have a problem with you, because it deems you not relevent anymore to consider worth listening to......and that is sad because he has so much to offer.
    Like a punch drunk boxer he tells us" i used to be someone, i was a champion" but who listens.....who really cares.
     
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