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Will 200W do it?!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by ulf_kurt, Jul 25, 2000.


  1. ulf_kurt

    ulf_kurt

    Feb 10, 2000
    Umea, Sweden
    Hi!
    Havent bought my first amp yet.
    Now i wonder, will a 200W transistor combo serve me well as a rehersal-amp and for gigging if I use the line-out into a PA. Then the combo will be used as a monitor/stage volumespeaker.

    How does the line-out work? Can i equalize the tone or is it just the "flat" tone from the amp.

    ___________________________________________
    .....we live and die for music.....
     
  2. pedro

    pedro

    Apr 5, 2000
    Madison, WI.
    I would think that a quality 200 watt combo ala WM 15 would serve you well for rehearsals and small/medium gigs. The DI should help when a P.A. is available and the gig dictates.
     
  3. Matthias

    Matthias

    May 30, 2000
    Vienna, Austria
    I think a 200W head will do it - I used one for 13 years now (and upgraded last week, but only for better sound, not more volume).

    Regarding line out:
    If it is really called 'line out' on your amp and is a 1/4inch jack, I think it is the EQed signal (the same wich goes to the power amp section of your head).
    If it is called "DI out" or "Balanced Out" and is a XLR jack, you usually have a little switch "pre EQ/post EQ" ore something like that, so that you can chose. If there is no such switch, it is always pre EQ (just the signal of your bass)
    In my experience, it's better to use the Balanced Out and send the pre-EQ signal, because the sound guy usually needs his own different EQ-settings on the PA, wich means he will not be very happy with your EQed signal.

    Matthias

    [This message has been edited by Matthias (edited July 25, 2000).]
     
    Jhengsman and Munjibunga like this.
  4. ulf_kurt

    ulf_kurt

    Feb 10, 2000
    Umea, Sweden
    Ok, thanks!
    Its a line-out so probably a post-eq then.

    What about micing an amp. I have a shure-mic, its kind of an allround mic. How do you get the best sound. Distance, angle, volume, etc.

    Cheers!
     
  5. Matthias

    Matthias

    May 30, 2000
    Vienna, Austria
    Sorry, I can't help you out here - I've never done this.
    The sense of miking is to get also the sound of the cab - and that's exactly what I DON'T like, others say you can't do it without. It's a different thing with guitars: The influence of the cab is MUCH more important here, actually the pure line signal of a distorted guitar sounds like s... (IMHO)
    Regarding bass: It's easier to use the line signal - plug and play!

    Matthias
     
  6. ulf_kurt

    ulf_kurt

    Feb 10, 2000
    Umea, Sweden
    Yeah i'll probably use the line-out into a PA most of the time. We'll be using a PA almost every time at rehearsal and gigging.

    One more thing. The times we dont use a PA (rehearsals) and the drummer wants to have a monitor for the bass. Can I use the line-out into another amp and put it next to him. Or is it dangerous to put line-out into a amp-input?

    Many questions.... [​IMG]
     
  7. Matthias

    Matthias

    May 30, 2000
    Vienna, Austria
    Interesting question, I made experiments with my two amps (Gallien-Krueger MB150 combo and Hughes&Kettner BassBase 400 head)today and that's what I found out:
    The bottom line first: different amps - different circuitries, you will have to find out what works best with your equipment, but usually it's not a problem!

    With my amps it's like this:
    The line out of the G-K is not only 'post EQ', it's also 'post master', wich means that the line-out level is influenced by the setting of the master volume, which is not very useful [​IMG].
    But running the 'effect send' into the input of the H&K works well. The signal has about the same level as the bass, so no problem with overdriving the H&K's input.
    The line out of the H&K is as I expected post EQ and pre master, and it's a rather 'hot' signal, I have to use the -10dB pad (=active input) at my G-K and not set the input gain too high, but it also works well.
    BTW: I can also use the 'effects return' as input, in this case I'm running only the power amp (with the disadvantage, that no seperate EQing of the slave amp is possible).
    Tons of information, huh? Hope you find something you need.

    cheers!
    Matthias
     
  8. ulf_kurt

    ulf_kurt

    Feb 10, 2000
    Umea, Sweden
    Thanks a lot for all info, it really helps novice players like me! [​IMG]
     
  9. kap'n kro

    kap'n kro

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Yeah, this really all does come down to what specific gear you're using, as various amps handle these things in slightly different ways. With that being said, concerning sending the line out from one amp into the input of another - in my experience, depending on how strong the active pad is, you might be able to get away with it. My active pads are all -10db, which, if I'm not mistaken, would be just about right to handle a line level output from elsewhere.

    OP, also IME, the issue with sound guys not wanting a Post EQ signal usually comes down to them not having enough time to radically adjust their settings during quick changeovers with many bands on one bill. This is also the reason why they're less likely to mic your cab in these situations as well.

    If you have time, or are the one running the PA, this is a moot point.
     
  10. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Wait. You joined this forum 17 years ago and you are just now buying your first bass amp?????? I need an explanation. :D
     
    BadExample likes this.
  11. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Experimental-psychedelic-ambient-noise-drone Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2011
    Denmark
    Careful planing takes time.

    I expect OP to have carefully planed out his bass career in all this time. :p

    To OP, yes it ought to be sufficient.

    I used a 60W tube amp, although tube amps do tend to be different creatures, for rehearsals and small gigs for years without problems, sometimes with PA backup though through a DI.

    At the moment I use a 130W Trace Elliot, that do tend to be conservatively rated regarding watts, and it keeps up fine at even quite loud rehearsal volume, even if I never go beyond the 12 o'clock mark on the master.
     
  12. DWBass

    DWBass The Funkfather

    I have been gigging a 200/250 watt amp for the last 2-3 years playing bars and clubs. Outside of a super loud heavy metal band or a super hard hitting drummer, 200w should be fine. Back in the 90's, I also gigged a 130w Peavey TNT Combo amp and a 200w Fender BXR amp. Plenty loud. Got asked to turn down quite a bit. Having said that, I just bought a 500w amp in case I need a little more. I'm still befuddled by folks who need 1000w! I mean........how loud does one really need to be?!?! And don't give me that 'needing headroom' crap! If you need that much power, you're too damn loud! As Bob Newhart would say........"Stop It"!
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  13. LeftyD

    LeftyD Supporting Member

    Feb 22, 2017
    Las Vegas
    The original poster was last seen March 8, 2001.
     
  14. kap'n kro

    kap'n kro

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Fooled by a zombie again. I need to recalibrate my filter.
     
  15. BooDoggie

    BooDoggie Typical Dumb-ass with a degree Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2014
    Minden, LA
    Can someone explain to me how a post that is nearly 17 years old would suddenly come back to life???

    YES - 200 watts is more than enough for most situations.

    But that Depends...

    Are you using a single speaker, (15", 18")? Or are you using a multi speaker cabinet (2-10's, 4-10's, 8-10's, 2-15's, etc... etc.)? Each choice will give you a different power to SPL ratio. As a bass player I know I always wanted as many SPL's as I could get for that perfect punch to rumble ratio... Most people only understand DBL's and don't really understand the importance of SPL's. 90 DBL's will damage hearing. 120 SPL's will push you into the next room while you carry on a conversation with the person next to you.

    The level of signal being sent by the instrument; i.e. vintage passive signal vs latest innovation in active electronics can make a big difference in how "loud" the sound produced is. A nice clean vintage passive signal should produce quite good results. You should have enough SPL's to punch people with and as long as you don't see the smoke of the magic jeannie as it escapes from the back of your amp you're fine.

    Most if not all bass amps or preamps made today have very high quality balanced line level outputs built in. A line level output signal (This would include an effects loop output.) no matter whether it is pre EQ (Preferred by any "good" sound engineer.) or post EQ can safely be plugged into any power amp (An instrument input is a line level input). Although not all line level signals are created equal, they are within a reasonable tolerance as to not damage the input circuits of most any power amp or bass amplifier. From a sound engineer's perspective, it really doesn't matter if you use effect pedals or not if your preamp has a balanced line out to send to the PA if not a direct box just before the amp input will do just fine. The EQ settings that you use to make your rig sound the way you want where you are standing don't equate to crap to a sound engineer trying to balance all of the sound you have coming from your amp and the perceived sound within the walls of the venue you are playing in.
     
  16. Colonel Barnes

    Colonel Barnes Supporting Member

    May 4, 2008
    Pacifica, CA
    Sorry but an instrument is not line level. A typical passive bass or guitar puts out what we call mic level. IOW, about the same as a SM-58. Actives a little more. A DI output is mic level. Most pedals are mic level. Preamps and sound mixers put out line level. The difference is about 40 dB. If you plug your bass straight into a power amp that is designed for line level input you will be disappointed.
     
  17. kap'n kro

    kap'n kro

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Alright, I read that a few more times. My initial thinking was about the difference from instrument level, which I think is usually a little hotter than mic level. At any rate, to the googles for a source. This is from the first page that came up:

    "Some common levels you'll see:
    +4 dBu is "professional" line level, common in modern pro recording gear, and it is about 1.25 V.
    0 dBv is an average line level, typical output from rackmount guitar/bass preamps.
    -10 dBv is "consumer" line level, common with older and cheaper recording gear.
    -20 dBu is roughly in the neighborhood of a typical instrument's output.
    -30 dBu is again in the neighborhood of a typical microphone or DI box's output.
    However, instruments and microphones can have a very wide range of output levels in reality, so it is most practical to think of instrument-level and mic-level in/outputs as just "a lot lower than line level", rather than calculating specific dB amounts.
    "
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  18. Colonel Barnes

    Colonel Barnes Supporting Member

    May 4, 2008
    Pacifica, CA
    I could quibble but it'd just be a quibble. The last sentence is correct.