Will this rig be loud enough to compete with rectifier insanity????

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by lo-end, Nov 13, 2001.

  1. lo-end


    Jun 15, 2001
    I must have had good karma because now I am getting a Mesa/Boogie Road Ready 4x10 cab for only $500. I am planning on getting a used Ampeg SVT-4 PRO or some preamp/poweramp thing. I think the Mesa/Boogie is 8 ohms and handles 600 watts.

    So will 600 watts be enough power to compete with a guitarist that has a Mesa/Boogie 150 watt Triple Rectifier and a sealed back Mesa 4x12? help! :eek:
  2. Kind of a related question for the tube experts here - why would an amplifier need three rectifier tubes? Do these amps really need that much current?
  3. The Triple Recto has only one rectifier tube.

    The first Rectifier was the 100-watt (4x6L6) Dual Rectifier, which has both tube and diode rectifiers, and allows you to switch between the two. The Triple Rectifier, with 150 watts provided by 6 6L6s, and the Single Rectifier, with 50 watts, have one and zero rectifier tubes respectively.

    What can I say--guitarists are stupid. :rolleyes:
  4. Back in the day when my Dad used to repair my Silvertone amps, he always said a 6L6 was worth 15 watts of real power on a scope. I imagine that probably holds true today. This would make the 4x6L6 and honest to gawd 60 watts.

    I suspect your proposed rig will have some difficulty keeping up with a loud guitarist using the 4x6L6 rig and 4x12 setup. I have a lot of trouble keeping up with my guitarist who has a 60 watt tube Peavey head and driving a pair of 12". My situation is worse because I use subwoofers, but I also use a helluva lot more power.

    If it were me, I'd skip the SVT4Pro and go with the SVP-Pro preamp and a bigg ballzz power amp, if the Ampeg sound is what you are wanting.
  5. leper


    Jun 21, 2001
    600 and a 4x10 is gonna barely keep up, as in not acceptably, as in Id expect it to be in the death-throws just about all the time.

    The triple rectifier is the bane of bass players everywhere cuz that thing is really think sounding that it just doesnt leave much room to fit into the mix.

    From what Ive heard youd be much better off with the preamp and some other big ole poweramp as the svt4 has way overrated power specs.

    If you could get another 4x10 to go along with the mesa youre gettin youd probably be allright
  6. EString


    Nov 20, 2000
    Los Altos, CA
    A bigger power amp isn't really going to get him any wear seeing as how the cab is rated ay 600W @ 8 ohms.

    Even if it was rated higher, more power won't make as much of a difference in volume as more speakers.

    I think the rig he is suggesting will be fine. Just tell your guitarist that he doesn't have to run his amp at full blast, which he shouldn't if he wants to have hearing into his 70s.
  7. Gabu


    Jan 2, 2001
    Woodland Hills, CA
    My band has a single rectifier MB head, and a double rectifier head... both playing through MB 212 cabinets. I am easily able to be heard with my RC210, and 118 ext cab. Because my biamp settings cut off the 10s at 200hz, I am mostly playing through a single 18 with only 300w. I think you should be fine... if you need a bit more cutting power just boost your mids up. Good luck.


    Sep 26, 2001
    in the sun
    Here's the deal, In order to compete with a Mesa Head setup You need both power and surface area. By that I mean you will probably need a 4/10 and an 18 cab, and a huge power amp to compete with the sound pressure levels put out by a mesa 4/12. I'm in two bands, one is what I consider a juke box band because we play everything, and I mean everything exept rap. the other is almost Identical to Creed. Mostly because the lead guitarist modeled everything he has in his rig after the Guitarist from Creed,including the Mesa 4/12 and his style just a little more complicated (pretty good for a 16 year old). He's so loud that I had to plug into (2) Mackie active 15" 3way's I think they're the 1530's. I was also running my Carvin 2/10 W/ an R600 Head (600 watt's) And I still couldn't keep up. :eek: Being that he's 16 and that he doesn't think he will loose his hearing, negotiation on the volume aspect will be useless. :rolleyes:
    For my setup I'm planning to add an 18" Cabinet and a QSC PLX 1602 (1600 watt's) amp to power my 2/10's and the 18 and use the Carvin head as a pre.

    What's my point, you need a truck,a young back, and a huge check book to compete with a Mesa.


    Sep 26, 2001
    in the sun
    Oh yeah I borrowed someone's Carvin 18" cab during a concert one time, and the volume didn't change much. Thus the need for a bigger amp. . . .
    I was using my R600 for power of course.
  10. ThunderStik

    ThunderStik Guest

    Jun 25, 2001
    Claremore OK.
    Been there, My saying is "never take a knife to a gunfight. In order to get the most out of your cab you have to be able to deliver 600 watts at 8 ohms. That would take a sizeable power amp to provide 600 wt at 8 ohm. You also need some ten inch speakers (6-8) or at least a couple of 15's. I use a cavin 1500 watt power amp an ampeg svp-pro preamp a 4-10 cab and a 2-10 cab. You will need at least a 1000 watt power amp to put out 600 watts at 8 ohms. My 1500 only puts out 1000 watts bridged onto 8 ohms but at 4 ohms I get 1500, Imo you need to get another cab to get the ohms down and then a good power amp. I bought my amp and preamp for less than a head would cost ($730 for the pair) and I have plenty of power.
  11. barroso


    Aug 16, 2000
    i play with a guy with a Mesa Boogie triple rectifier head. with a mesa cab and a gibson les paul double cutaway. i can let my voice heard with a fender precision, SWR sm 400s, a laney 4x10 and a parsek 2x10 cabinets. your setup seems to be more powerful than mine, so 'im sure that you will be heard for sure. if not check the EQ. it's always a matter of EQ...
  12. PJR


    Jun 20, 2001
    N.E. PA
    ...keep the stage volume at 'sane' levels and you should be fine.

  13. Phat Ham

    Phat Ham

    Feb 13, 2000
    When I practice with my band I play through a Fender Bassman 100 and compete with one or sometimes two Marshall half stacks. The keyboard and vocs go through the PA, and the drum kit has one of those real loud picollo snares.

    On my bass I boost the mids at 250hz, and somehow I am able to cut through the mix and be heard. While the bass isn't overly powerful in the mix, it can be heard. My point is the way you EQ your sound can be the difference between being heard and not being heard.
  14. I gotta say, if your guitarist feels he needs a 150-watt head, he needs to learn about a little thing called a PA. I mean, my band's guitarists have talked this over, and between our lead player's 2x60-watt Line 6 AX2-212 and our rhythm player's 50-watt Marshall JCM900 1x12 combo (A/Bed with a Polytone Megabrute 1x8 combo for clean--he's a jazz player), all our foreseeable stage volume needs are covered.

    The cliche I've heard is, "you only need a rig that big if you're playing stadiums." That's bull--you never need a rig that big with modern monitor technology. Any guitarist who feels he needs that much stage volume needs a quick lesson in how to talk to the soundman.

    My advice to lo-end is this: tell your guitarist that if he ever puts the master above 2, you will quit and take your stuff with you. After the band has gone through several bassists this way, he might reconsider his volume needs.
  15. leper


    Jun 21, 2001
    it never occured you that he likes the way that head sounds? for all the crap that gets thrown around here about bass neadin headroom everyone loves to jump on the guitarist when they buy something which gives it to them. IME playin metal etc you need an over powered amp so you can give the power section an easeir time of it, thereby keepin your low-end together.

    theres more to guitar amps then volume...good ones well...sound good, and for metal the triple rectifier is pretty much the head of choice before you get into mucho money land (ala vht seperates)
  16. ThunderStik

    ThunderStik Guest

    Jun 25, 2001
    Claremore OK.
    I feel the same as leper. I love the sound of those boogies myself. If you want to run your amp at 80-90% all the time thats up to you but i never like to do that because of headroom. I have been in those situations and a 100-300 watt amp just wont do I dont care what anybody says, If it would work we all would only have smaller setups but I realized a long time ago that a distorting farting crackling amp aint for me. I like to feel the impact not just hear the stuff thats up in the guitar range.
  17. bizzaro


    Aug 21, 2000
    Originally posted by EString [/i]
    Just tell your guitarist that he doesn't have to run his amp at full blast

  18. Steven Green

    Steven Green

    Jul 25, 2001
    Pacific NW
    I had the Mesa diesel series 4x10 and the 625W M-2000 and it couldn't keep up with a Twin and a Quad-Reverb! I seriously doubt you'll be heard with a guitarist like that, not to mention 150W! It is very true though that guitar amps sound sweet when cranked, so maybe he should get an attenuator (THD hotplate or Marshall Powerbrake). Then he could get his super-saturated tones without killing your bass. Dude, that cab is gonna kill your back because mine was 130 lbs, yours, being RR is going to be a lot more! My suggestion as far as an amp would be a Mesa 400+. It's really loud, cuts through well and can be found for around $800 used. Good luck!
  19. Steven Green

    Steven Green

    Jul 25, 2001
    Pacific NW

    Another cab wouldn't hurt either!:D
  20. Finally, a response that makes sense. It's not always about what we NEED. Bassists buy stuff we don't NEED all the time. Do you NEED to add an 18 to your 4x10 so you can feel the low end? Not really, if your 4x10 cuts through the mix.

    My guitarist is in the process of upgrading. He's playing through a vintage 1960 closed-back Marshall cab and adding a MB Solo Rect. to it. For certain sounds, you NEED high volume to get the right tone. Guitar amplification is very different from bass amplification, which is why you don't see (as many) guitarists buying all digital direct boxes and going through the PA.

    Plus you have to admit that playing loud is just plain fun. When you can feel the music and not just hear it, it's cool stuff.

    To each his own I suppose. But I don't mind competing with a Mesa half stack. :D