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Wiring a Stingray 5 passive...help

Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by Timmy-Watts, Apr 3, 2013.


  1. Timmy-Watts

    Timmy-Watts Supporting Member

    Nov 12, 2010
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I know what you all are going to say, but I wanted to try this, as I've felt the preamp just compresses and sterilizes the tone in my beloved Stingray 5. I pulled out the preamp and wired the pickup directly to a new jack in parallel to test it. The mids opened up, all the beef and guts were still there, and I had a bigger dynamic range and more warmth, as I expected. The problem...that 3rd dummy coil. I guess it is integrated with the rear coil, so it seems you need the intricate switching of the preamp switch to defeat it in series or parallel mode. I've searched everywhere but there is nothing I could find to wire up this pickup without hum passively. A volume/tone setup is all I want. Does anyone know how to do this? That pickup sounds so good on its own.

    Or, could it be that it is wired up straight to a jack, and not grounded on pots? The bridge ground is connected, but makes no difference. I'm thinking the phantom coil is in play even though it doesn't have its own wires... Any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. Cadfael

    Cadfael

    Jan 4, 2013
    Germany, EU
    I don't know the original wiring ...

    But a preamp can't switch anything as it doesn't know what's going on with the PUs.

    The dummy coil shoud at least have one sepearte wire to turn it on/off / shortcut it.
    If this seperate wire is connected to HOT or GND there should be a shortcut to put it off.
     
  3. Timmy-Watts

    Timmy-Watts Supporting Member

    Nov 12, 2010
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Here's a pic: ImageUploadedByTalkBass1365014728.439444.

    Supposedly the red and black are hot, and the clear, white, green are negative/ground. Ernie Ball said I could bypass the dummy coil by "ignoring the black one and disconnecting the jumper from the dummy coil.", and that the 2 active coils are indeed reverse wound to be humbucking while in series or parallel.

    I'm an electronics newbie, but wouldn't that make the purple spot on the rear coil "hot" if I bypasses the dummy? It would basically take the dummy out of series with the rear coil, right? So if I disconnect the wires from the third coil and jump them together, then Black (purple) would still be "hot"? Then why does ground come out of that same spot? More questions than answers...
     
  4. Cadfael

    Cadfael

    Jan 4, 2013
    Germany, EU
    Ah!

    Didn't read your post as the photo says more than 1000 words ...

    Solder the black wire and bare to GND!!!!!!!!!!!
    Then both ends of the dummy coil are connected to GND (and the dummy doesn't affect anything).

    White has to be connected to HOT.

    I don't know it Green or Red will have to go to GND (and the other one to HOT) to make it a real humbucker. But the chance is 50% to do it right.
    I would guess bare, black an green to GND and white + red to HOT?

    But bare + black to GND means that both ends oth the dummy get GND (via purple wire).
     
  5. Timmy-Watts

    Timmy-Watts Supporting Member

    Nov 12, 2010
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I looked at Seymour Duncan's wiring diagrams. Their white, bare, and green are ground, and black and red are hot. I assumed (maybe wrongly) they use the same wiring colors as EBMM...I found out the Bartolini Music Man Pickups use a different wiring scheme. I have another call in to EB asking simply for the polarity if all the wires.

    If I understand correctly, the ground acts as a (-) for the rear coil. So when in series or parallel mode the black is ignored. When in single coil mode it uses the dummy coil in series with the rear coil to cancel hum. At least it looks like that from the wiring. So if it is in series, then purple would be - , white would be +, dummy coil would be purple +, black - ... Or all of that is reverse. And I have no idea which is - and + on the red/ green coil. I assume red is +
     
  6. Cadfael

    Cadfael

    Jan 4, 2013
    Germany, EU
    Definately NOT!

    Have a look at your photo / PU!
    Bare goes to the magnets (for hum protection when touching) and under the dummy coil to the lower soldering point (where also purple is soldered). Via purple, the bare wire is also connected to the "left" soldering point of the dummy coil.

    Bare MUST be GND.
    So, "black" can only be the HOT connection of the dummy coil (GND comes via bare > purple).
    IF bare and purple are GND, white HAS to be HOT!

    The only question left is, whether green or red is HOT (or GND).

    > Solder bare+black to GND and White to HOT.
    Solder Green to ground and red to HOT. Then, the two coils are at least parallel. If the sound is very weak now (Out-of-Phase) and/or it hums, swap the red and green wire.

    Can't be anyway else ...
     
  7. Timmy-Watts

    Timmy-Watts Supporting Member

    Nov 12, 2010
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Ok. Following that logic, when in single coil mode, the left coil is in parallel (via switching magic) with the dummy coil and the bare wire becomes the (-) ? So in that mode white and black are hot, bare is ground (connects both (-)'s via the purple jumper), and the red/green coil is off...

    In series and parallel modes, the black is not in the circuit at all, and the bare stays coil 1's (-) ?
     
  8. Cadfael

    Cadfael

    Jan 4, 2013
    Germany, EU
    RIGHT!

    The the tiny bare wire which goes under the dummy coil to the "purple connection".

    For the "dummy SC" bare (and as connected) purple get GND. White+ Black are HOT.

    In "real series mode", bare remains GND.
    It might go GND > bare > white > green > red > HOT
    or GND > bare > white > red > green > HOT (for series wiring)

    I don't know if red or green has to be soldered to GND (HOT) for the parallel.
    But there is a 50% chance to do it right because red and green are the only unknown wires now. Bare + black is GND (to kill the dummy) and white is HOT.
     
  9. Timmy-Watts

    Timmy-Watts Supporting Member

    Nov 12, 2010
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    ??? I thought you said black has to be hot...

    Tried ignoring black, soldered bare, green to , red and white to hot for parallel. Tons of hum, very low, thin output, not big and beefy like before. I'll try it with red and green reversed.

    So if it is as you say them at first I had all 3 coils wired in series, with the dummy coil un-canceling the hum cancellation. Now it seems I have coils 1 and 2 in out of phase parallel.
     
  10. Timmy-Watts

    Timmy-Watts Supporting Member

    Nov 12, 2010
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I found it! Green and white are hot. Seems counter-intuitive to make red ground but oh well.

    Btw, it still sounds like a stingray, only hotter, less compressed, and still has a glassy top end to it. I'm going to wire it up to go series/parallel via push-pull with a resistor for series to compensate, and hook up a multi-cap tone switch for the tone knob to feed.

    I can't believe this information hasn't been posted online. Sheesh, all I wanted to know was what polarity the wire colors are. Seems no aftermarket stingray pup makers follow the same scheme...
     
  11. Cadfael

    Cadfael

    Jan 4, 2013
    Germany, EU
    Yes, then try:

    Bare + black + red > GND
    White + green > HOT

    - - - - - - -

    What I wanted to say:
    The dummy coil has one GND and one HOT end (to let it work).
    The GND end is purple (via bare). So, the HOT end has to be black.
    BUT you want to shortcut this coil! So, GND has to come from both sides - and this means, that black has to be shortcutted by soldering it to GND.

    - - - - - - -

    The humming problem should be solved by reversed red/green ...

    I don't know your first wiring.
    Maybe you had a series instead of parallel wiring? Don't know ...
    It would take 5 minutes if I was in Ohio but my beamer is broken and there's the Atlantic between us ...
     
  12. Timmy-Watts

    Timmy-Watts Supporting Member

    Nov 12, 2010
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    So now that I have figured out the wiring, I can't figure out how to wire it to a 3-way switch Parallel / single (with dummy in parallel) / series. Everything I came up with on a standard 3-way switch doesn't work. Anyone have any ideas? Line6man?

    Seymour Duncan's site has a diagram for this wired with a blade switch, but it is exactly the same for the 2-coil and 3-coil pickups. Also, they seem to use a different color scheme. I guess I'll have to call them in the morning.
     
  13. Cadfael

    Cadfael

    Jan 4, 2013
    Germany, EU
    Can you tell us what red/green are? Which is GND/HOT?
    This info would help a lot!!!
     
  14. Timmy-Watts

    Timmy-Watts Supporting Member

    Nov 12, 2010
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Green is hot, white is hot. Black is hot on the dummy. Clear is ground for coil 1 and the dummy, and red is ground for coil 2 (neck).

    I have not found one diagram online of how to wire up a 3-coil pickup to a switch, only where to attach the terminals to a preamp. I can get it to series-single-parallel, but it leaves out the dummy. The dummy will cause hum in series and parallel.

    Btw, I'll mention again that IMO this setup sounds fantastic without the preamp! Fat, clear, punchy bass. Warmer and more organic, and probably more aggressive. Passive tone and coil selecting is all I'm gonna need with this :)
     
  15. Try this, if someone can check it for errors I would appreciate it. (It looks ok to me.)
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Cadfael

    Cadfael

    Jan 4, 2013
    Germany, EU

    Hi delta,

    are you sure the switch layout is right?
    Looks like a double On/S/On instead of On/Z/On ...

    I have found two different layouts for a 4P3T ...

    Here is my solution (for both switch layouts), attached as pdf file.
    The schematic is more important because it shows how the switch can work (no matter how the switch layout is).

    The "first" (lower double) switch section works like a normal "DiMarzio Dual Sound On/Z/On".
    The second (upper double) switch section lets the dummy only work in the middle position (when the other section is in SC mode).


    EDIT @ delta:
    If your switch layout is right ...
    You could avoid the "cutting purple an bare" by connecting 8 + 12 and then solder black to 11 instead of 8!
    The dummy would always be grounded (which is good) and in the middle position the signal goes from 11 via switch to 12, then by wire connection to 8 and via switch to 7 (output).
     

    Attached Files:

    aigman likes this.
  17. Hi Cadfael

    Mine is for the 4PDT ON-ON-ON #7411SYZQE (Digikey CKN1139-ND), the middle positions are marked by the dotted lines. There are no doubt others but that is the one I am familiar with.

    Good call on the modification as it means no extra wires and as you rightly point out keeps the dummy coil earthed, I didn't see that before. Always good to have someone else look over these things.
     
  18. Cadfael

    Cadfael

    Jan 4, 2013
    Germany, EU
    This is a method do build an A/B/C switch out of a On/Z/ON.
    I think such a wiring is used in a Fender J5 3HB guitar to select neck/middle/bridge via toggle switch ...

    But this is off topic ... :scowl:
     
  19. aigman

    aigman

    Jun 5, 2004
    Hey guys how's it goin...

    I had an idea to install a four way switch on my stingray 5 which would do series, parallel and coil 1 (neck) and coil 2 (bridge), but to do the coil by the neck w/o hum I would have to solder some jumper wires onto the Phantom coil, yeah?
    Currently I pried the entire pup out of the cover, flipped it around and popped it back in so that the single coil pos activates the neck coil. Sounds like a tight pbass- awesome.
     
  20. BassLife77

    BassLife77

    Nov 13, 2009
    San Diego
    you should try the 2 band MM preamp. It sounds way better than the 3 band. it's far from sounding sterile and compressed
     

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