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Wiring diagram for series/parallel J-bass

Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by Fishface, Oct 30, 2002.


  1. Fishface

    Fishface

    Jul 26, 2002
    Denver, Colorado
    I am looking to wire my MIJ Fender Jazz with a push/pull pot for series & parallel pickups. It has the original pickups.

    Is there anyone that has a sketch that you can send me?

    Also, will I still get the same type of 2 volume blend control that I get with the standard wiring when I go into series mode?

    Any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. Fishface

    Fishface

    Jul 26, 2002
    Denver, Colorado
    Any takers?
     
  3. I want to know this too!

    I have planned to re-wire a jazz for master vol, bal and master tone with pull switch for series/parallel. The first part was easy to find, the second part (series/par) was hard. Found something that I didnt quite understand in the "setup forum" jazz bass wiring modification or something. Anyone?
     
  4. Chasarms

    Chasarms Casual Observer

    May 24, 2001
    Bettendorf, IA USA

    True. This is because the push/pull pots are available only on 3PDP. (Triple poll, Double throw)

    It is possible to wire a series/parrallel rig and maintain use of both volume controls, but you have to use a 4PDP switch, which I have never seen in a push/pull pot. You can find them in mini toggle if you don't mind drilling a small hole through your control plate.

    I think I would prefer this method.


    Chas
     
  5. Bonafide

    Bonafide

    Oct 15, 2002
    Push-pull pots are available as DPDT 'Double Pole Double Throw' ( 2 rows of 3 poles) not 3PDT. 3PDT (3 rows of 3 poles) mini switches are available but much harder to find.
    Warwick uses some 3PDT push-pull pots but they are rare.

    The reason you lose volume control over individual pickups is because they are now in SERIES. They are ONE larger pickup. Instead of 2 coils running side by side at the same time, they run one after the other (Hot from one into ground of the next etc). Individual volumes in series mode would defeat the purpose anyway. The exception being to use one as a coil cut/attenuator. (Still not likely or practical on bass)
     
  6. Chasarms

    Chasarms Casual Observer

    May 24, 2001
    Bettendorf, IA USA


    Yep. You are correct. I goofed the numbers. Push/pulls are DPDTs and it is the 3PDT (nine pin) switch that you need.

    I understand that series wiring is giving one big PU. I had a cheapo Fernandes jazz that had a series/parallel switch. (mini toggle, not a push/pull) It was a 3PDT switch and allowed the continued use of the seperate volumes.

    I found it useful. It just gave me options. If I can't find a diagram on the web, I'll see if I can scratch on out.

    Chas
     
  7. Chasarms

    Chasarms Casual Observer

    May 24, 2001
    Bettendorf, IA USA
    This just in: I may be an idiot.

    I can't figure it out on paper and I can't remember the site I saw it on LAST WEEK!!!


    Anyway, I'll get back to this later. I need to do some real work.

    Chas
     
  8. Chasarms

    Chasarms Casual Observer

    May 24, 2001
    Bettendorf, IA USA
    Won't work. Bon' is correct. I am an idiot. I still want to see that diagram so I can figure out what I really saw instead of what I thought I saw.

    As for the Fernandes, I don't remember there being only one Volume in series and I am certain that is had a 3PDT switch, because it is still in my tool box. I modded the bass and took it out.

    Chas
     
  9. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    It can be done. Wire one side of the pot to the + of a pickup, the other side to the -, and the wiper to the output. The other pickup and pot are wired similarly, but the wiper is connected to the - side of the other pickup. LIke so:

    [​IMG]

    Note though, that if both are on full, it'll be twice as loud as one soloed. If wired as a blend pot, it won't quite be double (both will be somewhat attenuated in the middle).

    There might be some other practical issues, but unless I'm missing something it's certainly possible!
     
  10. Bonafide

    Bonafide

    Oct 15, 2002
    Hey geshel, thanks for the diagram. Actually I never implied it couldn't be done, I simply stated it was not practical (or even useful for that matter).
    Your diagram doesn't make any sense to me and IMO isn't practical.(actually I don't understand it at all). The pickups aren't in series here either. That was the goal.

    Pickup #1 you have the finish wire (-) going to the pot. You have just added the resistance of the pot IN SERIES to the pickup? Also pickup #1 is grounded ONLY through Pickup #2's pot. Correct?

    Pickup #2 is connected to the hot output VIA Pickup #1 vol pot. If you turn down pickup#1 then pickup #2 dies.

    Perhaps you can clarify for me what you meant here so I can understand.
    Thanks.
     
  11. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    So, which is it - am I wrong, or do you not understand? :) The pickups sure look in series to me.

    It's not what I thought it was though (you can't turn the top pickup all the way off in this arrangement) - I need to think about it some more. Doh! :rolleyes:
     
  12. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    Hmm, this is a tricky one. I think this will do it though.

    I added the circles to make it clear where the pots are.

    When each volume is "up", the pot's resistance is in parallel with the pickup. This loads it a bit but not any more than the volume pots in a normal parallel-wiring scheme do.

    For the top pickup, when the volume is "down", the pickup is shorted and therefore can't create any voltage, so is effectively "off".

    For the bottom pickup, when the volume is "down" the signal connection from the underside of the top one goes straight to ground, bypassing it.

    You know, this will still act a bit funky. The blending won't be totally smooth, and the top volume still behaves a bit different from the bottom one. I think a resistor or something might make it smoother. I'm maybe 95% sure that with a reasonably simple circuit you could get "normal" behavior.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    Here's a great page with a zillion different wiring setups on it. I can't find one that's a simple blend between two series pickups. They have a few that blend between series pickups *and* have some switches for parallel.

    It looks like, though, in all cases it's a bit weird - you don't get a simple volume for each pickup, you have to put one volume at 5 and one at 10 or something to get an even blend. Anyway, have fun. :)

    http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~dgb/index_e.htm

    "BSO5" in the "Bass wiring" section (down near the bottom) looks the most promising. With the switch in one mode, you get the pickups in series with a "master volume". With the switch in the other mode, you get series with a blend.
     
  14. Chasarms

    Chasarms Casual Observer

    May 24, 2001
    Bettendorf, IA USA
    Here was my problem when I tried to draw it out.

    With PU1s volume all the way down, there is no ground for PU2 correct?

    When you turn down the volume on PU2, you are sending the whole circuit to ground?


    I am sure you could use dual pots to create the needed grounds and open others needed, but it isn't worth the trouble.

    I decided that Bon' was right in saying it wouldn't be very usable. Typically with a jazz bass, you change the volumes for tone variation. In series the changes would have an annoying impact on the overall output level.

    Although, I still haven't figured out what the deal was with that Fernandes that I had.


    Chas
     
  15. Bonafide

    Bonafide

    Oct 15, 2002
    Thanks again for the info.
    Truthfully it still comes down to practicality. Most People play a Jazz Bass with the pickups as wired-in parallel. It really sounds most versatile that way.
    For the adventurous, a series wiring mod is a cool for a slightly 'thicker' or beefier tone, though in all reality will not be used much and really doesn't 'add' much in terms of useful tones.

    AGAIN, seperate volumes in Series mode defeats the purpose of series mode.

    There are 1000's of ways to wire up guitars and basses but the reason you see so much of the same thing over and over is because they are time tested and true. Great tone is USUALLY due to fundamentals.

    I have had the opportunity to draw schematics for a number of companies, here are some of them. You can find some interesting wiring options here.Some of the 'mods' I did for Seymour in the single coil section apply to a Jazz bass as well.

    http://www.warwickbass.com/schematics/

    http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/support/schematics.shtml

    http://www.schecterguitars.com/Dprods.htm

    Cheers.
     
  16. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    I'm not sure, since I can't see your drawings. :) Those aren't correct for my diagram.
     
  17. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    Wow! good resume. Do you have a name? ;)

    I'm not quite sure though why you say "having separate volumes defeats the purpose of series wiring". For me, the purpose would be: for a different sound. Having a blend or volumes for each pickup doesn't change the fact that when both are full-on, they are in series, and sound different than both on in parallel. So, it wouldn't defeat my purpose.

    I also don't know why you say that wiring in series doesn't add useful tones. I've read a number of accounts of people here on Talkbass who re-wired their Jazz basses in series, and it suited their needs much better. And, the P-bass sound has a lot to do with the fact that the two halves of the pickup are in series. Generally, wiring pickup coils in series lowers the resonance and increases the midrange. This isn't useful for anybody?

    I use a switchable series-connection between my humbucking pickups so that I can split them each to "single" coil, but keep the overall volume the same.

    I agree that the currently dominant wiring schemes do seem to work well enough for the general populace. But, given that not all guitarists are EEs :) and manufacturers' reluctance to change the status quo (somewhat justafiable, because of the populace's reluctance to accept such change), it's easy to see why the same schemes have such huge momentum for reasons *other* than tonal versatility.
     
  18. thetaurus

    thetaurus

    May 28, 2002
    Muncy, PA
    what are the advantages of having your pickups wired this way? i don't know much about pickup wiring, so a basic explanation would be fine. i like the way the pickups in my fender mia jazz are set up, so when i put new pickups in, how would they be wired to stay the same way?
     
  19. Bonafide

    Bonafide

    Oct 15, 2002
    Hey geshel,
    That wasn't my resume though I do have extensive REAL-LIFE experience in the field of guitar pickups and guitar electronics.

    Seems as though you mis-understood my point, or actually didn't read my post.
    Series wiring itself (WITH A JAZZ BASS) can be useful as a single ALTERNATIVE sound. (Understand now?) If you use a volume control in series to cut one pickup, you are back to a single coil right? Hence my point that seperate volumes defeat the purpose.

    A series/parallel/single coil switch is a better option in my opinion.

    P-bass sound is due to many things, only one of them being that the pickups are wired in series. Jazz bass pickups wired in series won't sound like a P-Bass.

    The reason more guitar companies don't put a bunch of wiring options on thier instruments is because they don't need to.
    If you'd like you can hot-rod your bass or guitar untill your blue in the face, Phase switches, coils cut. parallel wiring, blend control, slap contour switch, etc. etc. I have seen it over and over.It still doesn't mean you are actually adding any USEFUL TONES, or better yet, TONES THAT YOU WILL EVER USE.
    Even the most high end basses (And god knows there are enough of them) STRIVE for a great BASIC FUNDAMENTAL tone with thier wiring, period.

    I'm not suggesting that you don't experiment with tone or mods, I'm just suggesting that even the best bassists in the world, your heroes or influeneces keep it very simple for the most part.
    Do what you will, knock yourself out. It's the best way to learn what you like or don't. I am just sharing from experience.

    Good luck in whatever you do.
    Cheers.
     
  20. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    That sounds a *whole* lot like the "Jaco only needed 4 strings" argument. Moving on. . .