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Workingmans advice needed

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Francois Blais, Jan 17, 2002.


  1. Francois Blais

    Francois Blais Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 1999
    Québec, Canada
    Hi.
    I've settled my choice on a SWR Workingman's 10 or 12 combo.
    What do you advise?
    I play an EUB (electric upright).
    I like a fat tone, but with good definition.
    I like the old Roland cube 60 I presently own, but want to get more power.
    Pros?
    Cons?
    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. My WM12 has served me very well for a good while, and I would definitely recommend it. I used mine mostly for DB with a little bit of home practice or rehearsals on the side. I have played a NS EUB through a WM12, and I was generally impressed.

    Pros:
    * smooth, rich tone
    * decent headroom without difficult size
    * not too pricey

    Cons:
    * not ruler-flat tone (possibly more of an issue with DB)
    * slightly weighty; ergonomically poor for carrying
    * not quite enough headroom to carry louder jazz groups or rock rehearsals

    As with many combos (and probably the WM10, too), adding an extension can work wonders, SPL-wise - it certainly has with my AI Contra. I've found the WM12 and the WM 10" extension cab to be pretty nice, puncy, and portable combination for a very reasonable price. Either way, an extension cab should be your next purchase - it will really expand your options.
     
  3. Thanks Danny,you have just about made up my mind on my next purchase,an extension cab for my WM12.
    I have used my WM12 for about a year and a half now,with no complaint other than a shortage of headroom on some outside gigs.
    BTW,I just tried a California Blonde side by side with the WM12,hhhmm,nice but a bit too much tone shaping even with the eq set flat.
     
  4. Francois Blais

    Francois Blais Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 1999
    Québec, Canada
    Thanks to you.
    I've finally bought an used WM12.
    The tone is very different from the old Roland Cube.
    The WM12 is much more opened, with deep fundamentals and crisp highs, with lots of clarity.
    The speaker maybe a bit too colored in the midrange though.
    I'm thinking about replacing the speaker, which is a K12T-200 Celestion.
    (I checked on Celestion's site and, as I suspected, the K series is a low cost speaker)

    I'd like to get suggestions for a good replacement.
    I want a flat tone, more hi-fi style.
    I already know some brands; Eminence, JBL.
    JBL offers the 2206H and E120-8 in 12" speakers.
    Celestion has other models, like the BX12-3075, Q12-2535.
    Eminence has the Gamma-12, Delta Pro-12.

    A good 4 ohms speaker would be ideal to get the full 120W of my WM12.

    Opinions please?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  5. Years ago I replaced the speakers in my Laney cab with a pair of JBL's. The tone was perfect. The Laney head was real deep and low sounding. The JBL's tightened the sound and gave me more range to work with. I know your not going for 15's but I would have to assume that JBL is pretty consistent with all there speakers. They will also probably add a good amount of weight to the cab. The 15's were about 45 pounds each.
     
  6. I have been using a WM12 for the past 6 years
    with my DB and it works fine I would not change
    the speaker if it is not dammaged.The amp is tune
    with a lot of mid and to get a good tone with my underwood,I put the bass all the way up to 9/10
    the mid and the treble at 1 or 2/10.Also a 4 ohms
    will not allow you to use an extention speaker witch
    can be usefull on certaine gig ;putting the ex. speaker
    10 feet away near by the piano ect...........
     
  7. Francois Blais

    Francois Blais Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 1999
    Québec, Canada
    Thanks, guitaron.
    I'll give these settings a try.
    My settings are actually:
    Bass 5/10 (flat)
    Mid 3.5/10
    High 3.5/10
     
  8. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    I'm not sure I'd replace the speaker if it isn't damaged without doing a LOT of research. Different speakers have different power ratings, so replacing a "lower end" speaker with a one rated to handle more power can actually cause you to lose power rather than gaining it (although the resulting sound will be clean).

    I used an SWR Baby Blue combo for a while, and found that for most gigs, it was fine - I could get enough clean sound without driving past the line where the tone starts to degrade. When I needed more volume, I'd take an 8ohm extension speaker with me to the gig. When I didn't need the extra volume, I'd leave it in the car.

    One thing to consider is what kind of speaker to buy. To my ears, speakers designed for bass often color the sound WAY more than "full range" (PA) speakers. If you're only playing DB through this amp, you might try looking at small (1x8" or 1x10") extension cabs that were originally designed for PA use, since these provide the least amount of coloration.

    Good luck.
     
  9. Guitaron, I would be intersted to learn more about the settings you use on your amp,i also use the SWR WM 12.If you could indulge me for a moment,can you tell me what gain setting vs volume you use and do you mess with the aural enhancer control.
    FYI my usual settings are:
    Bass 7/10
    Mid flat(5/10)
    Treble 6/10
    Gain 6/10
    Volume as required (naturally)
    Aural enhancer off

    BTW I use the K&K Bassmax and Preamp
     
  10. Isle of Wight!!! This is the place where Jimi Hendrix
    gave is last concert is it?
    Steve, The setting I gave is working well with
    the underwood witch is a rather bright PU.
    I have tried the bassmax but still prefer the Underwood
    for is definition especialy on the E string.
    On the WM12 I use the aural en.at about 6/10
    The master volume always higher than the gain and
    I prefer without preamp (I have a Fishman pro EQ)
     
    jloftin1 likes this.
  11. Guitaron,Thanks for the reply,yes it is the place where Jimi played,and Dylan etc.etc.It is also the place that has taken 30 years to consent to another music festival being planned this June.It is in honour of the Queens Jubilee(good enough excuse)and the headline bands are being announced today on local radio,its a shame Jimi wont be around for this one.
     
  12. I know this thread is old and this info probably won't help the writer but it may help someone else with a similar question.

    I own an early WM12, the earliest cab design with 100w @ 8ohms & 120w @ 4ohms. I paid $379.00 USD in 1994 @ Veneman Music in DC just before thier buy-out by Guitar Center so I may have landed a better than average deal. What impressed me from the start was the sound quality; pro quality sonic excellence with the amp flat. I was amazed. It started a long love affair with SWR and Eden (who engineered them) for me.

    I have played active, passive, fretted, fretless and EUB through this thing; sometimes alone or with a SWR Big Ben (500w RMS Bagend loaded), a Bagend B15D or a SWR Son of Bertha. In small to medium venues, I rarely need more and with the extention cabinet it moves surprising amounts of air. The D.I. is phenominal; sound engineers live and in the studio have marvelled at the signal that this thing provides. The aural enhancer adds a lovely color and clarity to your sound that I love.

    I spilled coffee on the speaker cone and though it still sounded fine, I removed the Celestion K12T-200 speaker and took it to the local reconing shop. Biggest mistake of my life. The parts are captive OEM proprietary to SWR (now Fender) and unavailable in North America. The local rebuilder is VERY reputable and has done work for SRV, Tommy Shannon, Los Lobos, Z.Z. Topp, etc. He tore the cone out so as to mic and measure to create a kit only to find that nothing he had or could easily get would fit. I replaced the speaker with an EV with similar specs but it doesn't sound like it used to. I will order one from the UK and just pay through the nose to have "my sound" back.

    My point through all of this is; don't try to second guess an engineer. Someone in a previous thread thumbed his nose at this speaker and called it cheap but replacing the driver with a higher priced one will usually result in a speaker with a higher RMS wattage rating. That makes for a bad situation as the amp might not have enough power to drive the speaker efficiently resulting in a blown speaker. Underdriving will destroy a bare frame speaker much more quickly than overdriving because power = voice coil efficiency.

    My advise to the writer is "If it's not broken; don't fix it".

    All the Best, KS Austin, Texas USA