World Series Thread (Marlins - Yankees)

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Airsick Pilot, Oct 19, 2003.

  1. Airsick Pilot

    Airsick Pilot Cleopatra

    Jul 29, 2002
    Cockpit(throwing up)
    Marlins beat the Yanks 3-2.

    Game 1 to the Marlins! :cool:
  2. Dave Siff

    Dave Siff Supporting Member

    Well, this is what the Yankees do.. they lose Game 1. Lost it to Minnesota, lost it to the Red Sox. And in both cases, they sent Andy Pettitte out there to win Game 2, which he did. This time, though, he'll be on three days' rest. I'm a little concerned. The Yankees displayed their typical lack of clutch hitting last night (the 8th inning of Game 7 against Boston nothwithstanding!) One for 12 with runners in scoring position. Runner on second in both the 8th and 9th. Soriano is approaching worthlessness. The one positive thing is that Urbina looks like he can be had. We'll see.
    The Marlins are a tough, tough team, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they go on and win the whole thing. I don't think the Yankees or their fans are underestimating the Marlins, despite what you might be hearing. It's another media straw man. Last night, when Florida was leading 1-0, Joe Buck starts talking about how quiet the crowd is, and he says, "I don't know if they're emotionally drained from Game 7 against Boston. Or maybe they're not taking this Marlins team seriously." And Tim McCarver says, "That's a mistake." Of course, no quotes from any Yankees or Yankee fans to back that up. So, there you have it: they built the straw man, and then knocked it down. The Yankees and their fans don't take the Marlins seriously: they said it on TV, it must be true. :rolleyes:
  3. Airsick Pilot

    Airsick Pilot Cleopatra

    Jul 29, 2002
    Cockpit(throwing up)
    You're right and during the cubs-marlins series the commentators kept stressing the fact that the Marlins should be taken seriously. I don't know why they have to bring this up, I don't think anybody in their right frame of mind would even doubt the Marlins. The Marlins are certainly no walkovers(by far). I'm not a Marlins fan(I root for the Reds) but I've always admired their battling qualities. I think there isn't any doubt either that the Yanks are taking them seriously. I have a feeling Andy's gonna bail them out tonight though, he always seem to deliver the goods.


    Jun 1, 2003
    Orlando, FL
    go marines!

    err, marlins... :rolleyes:

    i really dont watch baseball, but my friend loves the yankess and i told her they are gonna lose :)
  5. Bob Clayton

    Bob Clayton My P doesn’t have flats or tort Staff Member Supporting Member

    Aug 14, 2001
    Philly Suburbs
    Yanks will win in 6

    Game 1: Marlins (1-0 Marlins)
    Game 2: Yankees (1-1 Tied)
    Game 3: Yankees (2-1 Yankees)
    Game 4: Yankees (3-1 Tankees)
    Game 5: Marlins (3-2 Marlins)
    Game 6: Yankees (4-2 Yankees Win)
  6. Aaron


    Jun 2, 2001
    Seattle, WA
    I think most people wanted to see Cubs vs. Sox...

    I hate the yankees and I have a slight distaste for the Marlins, so i hope they both lose. Double forfeit in game 7 due to a huge brawl?


    Jun 1, 2003
    Orlando, FL
    looks like yanks are gonna take this one

    top of 5th, 6-0 yanks
  8. Mike Money

    Mike Money In Memoriam

    Mar 18, 2003
    Bakersfield California
    Avatar Speakers Endorsing Hooligan
    I wanted it to be the cubs and the sox...

    I had $2 on the cubs and sox going to the series, and then the cubs winning it in 5...

    worst bet i ever made.
  9. Let's see here. The Yankers have a payroll of about $180 million, and the Marlins are around 1/3 of that.

    If the Yankers don't win, they'll be ripped by their fans and the media.

    Kinda reminds me...Torre needs to say the same thing to his players that Herb Brooks said to his team when they played Finland for the gold in 1980:

    "You lose this game and you will take it to your %$#@ing graves."

    P.S. THERE IS NO CURSE. All the Cubs or the Sox have to do is ante up their payroll and buy a winning team. The Yankers have been doing this since they gave Harry Frazee $125,000 and another $350,000 in a deferred loan for Ruth. keep us on a musical note here...what did Frazee do with the money? He went out and produced the most successful Broadway musical of the time, "No, No, Nanette."
  10. Dave Siff

    Dave Siff Supporting Member

    It's not quite that simple. In fact, the Red Sox have tried it and failed. They spent huge money to get Pedro Martinez ($17 million a year) and Manny Ramirez ($20 million a year), and they added a bunch of lesser-paid free agents before this season. They spent big bucks and put together a great team. And once again, they're watching the World Series on TV.
    It's not how much money a team spends, it's who they get for that money. Several teams have dumped huge amounts of cash on free agents in the last few years, and have nothing to show for it (Mets, Dodgers, Rangers, etc.) To use a bass metaphor, those teams bought custom-made, exotic-wood 7-string basses to play punk rock. Meanwhile, teams like the A's and Twins have succeeded with miniscule payrolls. That's because they knew what they needed, and weren't seduced by the lure of a guy way past his prime, or an available superstar at the wrong position. This has always been true of the Yankees, and most people are too busy whining about their payroll to see it. When the Yankees need a starting pitcher, they go out and get one. When the Texas Rangers need a starting pitcher, they go out and spend $252 million on Alex Rodriguez. Then they wait a couple of years and sign Chan-Ho "Out Of The" Park for $15 million a year. The Rangers have tons of money on hand, they just don't spend it wisely.
    Like other teams, the Yankees have signed some big-money free agents over the last few years, but look at the guys who have been the backbone of the current dynasty: Andy Pettitte, Bernie Williams, Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada. All products of the Yankees farm system. And they've spent a lot of money to keep those guys around (remember how the Red Sox tried to get Bernie a few years ago.)
    Ironically, the one team who is truly thought to have "bought" a World Series is the 1997 Marlins.
  11. Dave,

    I agree that it takes more than money. The Muts are a prime example of that.

    You NEED someone who can spot talent, develop talent and make decisions that effect the entire organization positively. There are just a few guys that can do that effectively at the big league level. stay with the Yankers you have to have the cash FIRST. There are NO examples in baseball history (other than Rickey coming up with the farm system idea before anyone else) whereby you can start and sustain a dynasty without shelling out the dough.

    I believe that both the Cubs and the Red Sox organizations now have people who can make talent decisions.

    But they aren't spending enough.

    Same thing with the Braves.

    The OTHER trouble is that folks are still in the 20th century mindset when it comes to the world serious. Back in the days when the Yankers rolled up all those championships they didn't have to go through the playoff system. So for instance they never had to face their nemesis of the Athletics pitching staff in the 20's. Now the playoff system does not identify the world champion. It only identifies the team that was the hottest for 19 games or less at the end of the season.

    The Yankers success over the past few years can be summed up in this sentence:

    They bought the best power pitchers money could buy and when they needed to they went after a bat too.

    Finally, there are those who believe that Torre is a genius. Well if he was such a genius I wanna know why after 1400+ games with the Muts and Cards he was about .450 as a manager.

    Money talks and Cubs and the Red Sox walk....err no, they ride, playing 18 holes today I am sure.
  12. Poor Bill Buckner. He gave an interview in the past year and he says that he hears about that play everyday.

    But here is what most Sox fans DON'T understand about 1986:

    By 86, Buckner was nearly at the end of his career. He knees where shot. The trainer would use a whole roll of tape on each leg, starting at the ankels and ending at mid thigh level. Buckner could barley move and as a first basemen was a defensive liability. On the booted grounder he said, "I could have gone to my knees to get the ball. But I wouldn't have been able to get up to throw it."

    But that isn't really the story. The Sox manager, John McNamara, knew how bad Buckner was hurting. ALL YEAR LONG, when the Sox got ahead in a game, McNamara subbed for Buckner in the late innings. Bill could still swing a bat, but that was about it.

    So my friends, picture that fateful game in which the Sox are ahead of the Muts in game six of the 1986 World Serious. Its the late innings and McNamara DOESN'T sub for Buckner.


  13. Dave Siff

    Dave Siff Supporting Member

    Good points all the way around, although I wouldn't necessarily devalue the Yankees championships between 1923 and '62 (nor any other team's titles before 1969.) The system was what it was, and is what it is. I'm not a big fan of the wild card; to me, that was the end of whatever purity baseball had left. Even now, though, only eight teams make the MLB playoffs, far less than in any other sport. So, there's that.
    As far as Torre, I don't think he's a genius -- as you pointed out, he hasn't been successful everywhere he's gone -- but I do think he's a superior post-season manager. Sure, you have to have great players, but the Yankees of 1996 to the present have been great teams, and that's not necessarily a reflection of the money. They've had neither an A.L. MVP nor a home run champion during that span. They just play together. Yes, they've added some of the best pitchers available, but my point in bringing up Andy Pettitte was that he, the Yankee farmhand, has been the big-game pitcher on these teams. Not Mike Mussina -- winless in the post-season as a Yankee. Not Clemens -- shelled in Game 7 against Boston last week. Pettitte got the ball rolling on this dynasty by beating John Smoltz 1-0 in Game 5 of the '96 Series, and he's 3-0 after Yankee losses in each Game 1 of the current post-season. That is beyond clutch.
    And as far as Buckner, I couldn't agree more. Not only should Dave Stapleton have been playing first base, but everyone forgets about Bob Stanley's wild pitch with the Red Sox one strike away. I don't know if there's a curse or not, but you have to agree that some major misfortune has befallen those teams, and especially last week -- weird, magical stuff happens in Yankee Stadium. It reminded me of Games 4 & 5 of the 2001 World Series. Even though the Yankees lost that Series, I will never forget those game-tying, two-out, two-run homers on back-to-back nights. That kind of stuff just doesn't happen.
  14. Dave,

    I wasn't devaluing the Yankers championships. I was merely pointing out that they didn't have to go through the play off system for most of those championships. Back then, you just won the pennant.

    In a five game series back in the 20's, the Yankers would have had a hard time with the Phildelphia A's because the A's just seemed to have their number in the regular season. And when you are starting Lefty Groove maybe the greatest pitcher of all time (yeah look at what he did BEFORE Jack Dunn let him FINALLY go to the bigs) - you have to like your chances.

    Today's fans need to wake up and understand that the playoff system does NOT favor the strongest team in the league like the past where pennant winners just went into the world serious without facing anyone else.

    If the Yankers had to face the playoff system as it now exists throughout their history they would not have the same number of championships period! That's not a dis on them...its just a cold hard look at the science of stats.
  15. Dave Siff

    Dave Siff Supporting Member

    Fair enough. I was a big fan of the old system, where you had to win the division. It was just so much purer than the other major sports, where you can go .500 and have just as good a chance as anyone else to get to the final round. I suppose there's some romance in that, too.. the NCAA basketball tournament is a great example, and I wouldn't want to change that one iota.
    And, oh yeah..
    You said "Yankers". :D
    The best one I've heard before that was "Yank-mes".
  16. While I'm rooting for the Marlins, when this is all over, I'm gonna drive to Andy Pettite's house and give that man a handshake.

    And yes, his off-season home is only down the street from me. Really.
  17. Airsick Pilot

    Airsick Pilot Cleopatra

    Jul 29, 2002
    Cockpit(throwing up)
    Cool stuff. :cool:
  18. Marlins World Champions baby!!!!!

    Miami Hurricanes are next!!
  19. Ty McNeely

    Ty McNeely

    Mar 27, 2000


    5 words:

    Oklahoma Sooners. Jason White. Unstoppable.
  20. Ty McNeely

    Ty McNeely

    Mar 27, 2000
    Freakin' awesome dude. Do you actually *know* him?
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    Primary TB Assistant

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