1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)

World's Largest Airliner

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Michael Jewels, Jan 18, 2005.

  1. I'm a bit of an aircraft buff, so I thought y'all would like to see the new Airbus A-380. www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=29

    Over 1.2 million pound take off weight!

    A Boeing 747 has a wingspan of about 211 ft., as compared to the 261 ft span of the A-380.

    That's a big bird! :eek:

    It's supposed to start landing at Kennedy airport next year, but they have to widen the ruways to accomodate it. The thing that worries me is: what if it it has to make an emergency landing at a relatively small airport?

    I wonder what Boeing will come up with to counter it?

  2. dave_clark69

    dave_clark69 Guest

    Jan 17, 2003
    OOOOOHHHHHH, impressive...... *rolls eyes*
  3. NJL


    Apr 12, 2002
    San Antonio
    darn!! i missed that on the 6pm news last night, they did a little special on it. darn!

    all i know mike, is that i hope your home isn't on the flight path of any of the runways!!

    :eek: :(

    i remember a story on a company that installs bigass parachutes on cessna's, so that if they had engine failure, they could just glide down to land, but i don't know about this monster!
  4. Toasted


    May 26, 2003
    Leeds, UK
    Boeing won't come up with anything to counter it - they say there isn't a big enough market. And so do Airbus, apparently. EADS claims they only need to sell 250 A380s in order to break even. Given the cost of the project (and the fact it's €1.5 million over budget), everyone else thinks that number is closer to 450. If Airbus sells 450 A380s, everyone will be surprised. There are simply too few routes that require such a large capacity aircraft. In a time when passengers (and airlines) prefer point-to-point and frequency rather than size, one can't see that many more airlines ordering the A380, especially in the numbers required for Airbus to make profit.
    Freight is a similar story. Freight airlines like palletised aircraft, like the MD-11 and the recently launched 777-200LRF. Bulk aircraft like the A380 and 747 are liked less. The reason the 747 is so successful as a freighter is because its nose allows long cargos to be carried - it’s not efficient as a pallet and LD3 carrier. The A380 will be in the same position; only it won't be able to load long cargos due to the nose.
    And now we come to the problem - 'launch loans'. By giving Airbus these loans, the EU is breaking numerous international laws, and going against the spirit of business. Airbus can launch an aircraft with the guarantee that if it fails, they won't have to pay back the launch loan. If Boeing launch an aircraft, and it fails, they still owe their debtors. You simply cannot compare favorable military contracts and Airbus-style launch loans - the military contracts did not allow Boeing to launch commercial aircraft risk free. Airbus's loans allowed them to launch the A320, A330 / A340, A340NG and A380 programs without any risk, and THAT'S why they're unfair
  5. Carlos, it is when it rains and the planes come in on instruments. :bawl: :D

    Toasted, excellent post, dude. :cool:

    And so fast !!!

  6. Gard


    Mar 31, 2000
    WInter Garden, FL
    Toasted, wow...good post!


    ...I'd never expect an EU'er to say something so negative (and in a back-handed way positive about Boeing) about how Airbus gets an unfair advantage in this situation.

    I've also got a sinking feeling that you're right in your assessment of the situation about the possibility of success for the A380. I also think Boeing's idea of a faster medium "point-to-point" liner will be more successful.

    However, I do think that this is a pretty cool airplane, and hope to ride on it one day!
  7. How does this thing compare to a C-5?
  8. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Olympia, WA
    I just got done watching a news report about this new plane on my local news. They interviewed a Boeing exec, so I guess he put the Lazy B slant on it, but he basically said the same thing Toasted did....no market for a plane this size.

    Still a very cool plane though. I am sure some rich team owner will buy one for his NBA/NFL/MLB team.

  9. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Supporting Member

    Leavin’ home, out on the road
    I’ve been down before
    Ridin’ along in this big ol’ jet plane
    I’ve been thinkin’ about my home
    But my love light seems so far away
    And I feel like it’s all been done
    Somebody’s tryin’ to make me stay
    You know I’ve got to be movin’ on

    Oh, oh big ol’ jet airliner
    Don’t carry me too far away
    Oh, oh big ol’ jet airliner
    Cause it’s here that I’ve got to stay

    Goodbye to all my friends at home
    Goodbye to people I’ve trusted
    I’ve got to go out and make my way
    I might get rich you know I might get busted
    But my heart keeps calling me backwards
    As I get on the 707
    Ridin’ high I got tears in my eyes
    You know you got to go through hell
    Before you get to heaven

    Big ol’ jet airliner
    Don’t carry me too far away
    Oh, oh big ol’ jet airliner
    Cause it’s here that I’ve got to stay

    Touchin’ down in new england town
    Feel the heat comin’ down
    I’ve got to keep on keepin’ on
    You know the big wheel keeps on spinnin’ around
    And I’m goin’ with some hesitation
    You know that I can surely see
    That I don’t want to get caught up in any of that
    Funky **** goin’ down in the city

    Big ol’ jet airliner
    Don’t carry me too far away
    Oh, oh big ol’ jet airliner
    Cause it’s here that I’ve got to stay

    Oh, oh big ol’ jet airliner
    Don’t carry me too far away
    Oh, oh big ol’ jet airliner
    Cause it’s here that I’ve got to stay
    Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah

    Big ol’ jet airliner
    Don’t carry me too far away
    Oh, oh big ol’ jet airliner
    Cause it’s here that I’ve got to stay

    Oh, oh big ol’ jet airliner
    Carry me to my home
    Oh, oh big ol’ jet airliner
    Cause it’s there that I belong
  10. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Bizarre. The web page says, "Country of Origin, U.S." Huh?
  11. FR5


    Feb 12, 2004
    Let me chip in here, being an aviation nut myself.

    I do agree with the points mentioned by Toasted, the launch loans do not seem to weigh up to the military contracts. But I am glad that there are two serious players in the market instead of just one, this must be good for innovation and competition as such. Will be interesting to see how long it will take the Chinese to catch up.

    Nowadays the selling of aircraft seems to be more about political motives than strictly commercial guidelines, governments are as much involved as aircraft manufacturers and it has become a part of the "trade wars".

    And I think that Toasted meant a 1.5 billion cost overrun instead of 1.5 million. This is a really big numbers game.

    Grtz, steven
  12. bmc


    Nov 15, 2003
    Although the Boeing Airbus dispute will not go to the WTO now, you'll find it amusing to know that the lawyer selected by Airbus to represent them is an American and a fellow bass player.

    The subsidies on both sides are questionable in the context argued by both sides. Airbus is clearly winning the sales game with more new orders on the books heading into 2005. They also lead in terms of deliveries per year. Nonetheless, airliner manufacturing requires significant capital, and all manufacturers (Airbus, Boeing, Embreaer, Canadair) have found government money to subsidize development, as seen by WTO disputes. I think the escalation to a trade dispute is influenced by the successes of Airbus in the past two years.

    The A380 will be a hit. It's a perfect machine for slot constrained airports, such as Heathrow, where you can't actually get any more slots at meanigful times. So if you can't put more metal into there, build a bigger machine. Long haul flow traffic operators such as Emirates, Singapore, Qantas need a mchanine like the A380. The economics of it far outweigh the B747. Lower seat costs in high volume markets ensure more profitable operations. Add to that the major growth areas of the world and the A380 is the answer. No airline will loose money with the A380. The traffic base is there and it's growing. It's the right machine.

    As a frequent business traveller, the Boeing dreamliner is a more appealing airplane. The extensive use of composites enables it to offer a much lower cabin pressure, or around 6,000 feet as opposed to standard 8,000 feet ( may be off on the 6,000). That makes it a little more comfortable to breath. On top of that, the new materials will enable more humidity into the cabin. Currently, it is no more that 5%. The 7E7 will also have larger windows, making it brighter inside. So...comparing the two machines, which you can't because they are different beasts for different applications, my preference as a business traveller is the smaller Boeing. The A380 with so many passengers affects board time, offload time and more people approaching the immigration lines at the same time. Not appealing. From an aircraft economics point of view, I'm not convinced the 7E7 will be a winner either. It's after a different market that I'm not convinced isn't already well served with B767/B767-400/A340/A330/B777. Not in a direct airplane to airplane comparison, but in terms of serving markets.

    One last tidbit trivia for the airplane geeks. It may be urban myth, but the story was relayed to me by an aquanitance that once owned the Canadair CL-44 Guppy.

    Jack Conroy developed the line of Guppies back in the 60's. When the Airbus consortium was formed, it was predicated on the participating countries building components, with final assembly in Toulouse. Airbus approached Jack to buy his Guppies. The legend has it that he went to Boeing and said, "you can stop Airbus in its tracks by buying my fleet of clapped out Guppies for $XXXX". The response from Boeing was "Airbus is not a threat." Could be urban myth, don't know folks.

    My $.02

  13. Bah! It may be big, but it'll never be the legend that the concord was.
  14. bmc


    Nov 15, 2003
    You have the right my friend. I have to say I am happy to have listened to the sweet sound of that machine at LHR many many times. You know there's one parked on the crosswind runway (closed) at Heathrow? Evertime I fly into LHR, I either taxi by in on the way from or to runway 27L. I'll always remember seeing 3-4 of them at BA's hangars when on short final to land on either 27 left or right.

    What an airplane. Hey...you Brits have done ok with airplane design. Why couldn't you apply that genius to your cars? :D
  15. Hurley


    Feb 12, 2004
    Cape Cod, MA
  16. bmc


    Nov 15, 2003
    Not unlike the piano bar in the upper deck of the original B747 Classic. Lounges are wasted space that could be earning revenue. We'll see if they actually configure them like that. I would be very surprised. As for the first class beds, a lot of carriers have them there today.
  17. Gia


    Feb 28, 2001
    goodbye atmosphere!
  18. bmc


    Nov 15, 2003
    That's a good point and certainly not one that isn't under consideration by the industry and regulators. Demand for quieter airplanes 25 years ago has lead to quieter airplanes today. Listen to the noise from a 727 on climb power compared to a BAE146 or Avro RJ (whatever you wanna call it). That four engine jet is quiet.

    Environmental concerns will make it an issue going forward. The engine manufacturers will get us there.

    That being said, it brings a smile to my face to watch the odd DC-8 pull out of here leaving four skid marks in the sky. Purely nostaligia, that's all.
  19. Toasted


    May 26, 2003
    Leeds, UK
    The 7E7 will be the first composite fuselage airliner; it needs to be built whatever. It is likely the A380 is the last all metal fuselage airliner. Given the engine advances (A380 engines are merely GE/PW and RR's modification of existing Trents/GE90s, whereas the 7E7s engines will be completely new), the lack of bleed air and even simple things like provisions for a hydrogen APU will make the 7E7 much more efficient than the 767, and even A330-200 (which is does not compete with technically)
  20. We did apply it to cars, look at TVR! :cool: