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would you play thru this?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Nook, Mar 8, 2008.


  1. Nook

    Nook Commercial User

    Jan 6, 2008
    Usti nad Labem, Czech Rep.
    owner, designer and builder - www.soundelirium.com
    Hi all!
    I am in serious doubts :) Building a 1x12, the plywood has been cut, but I am still not sure about my driver chosen. It is 18Sound 12ND730. I am happy with their 15ND730 in my smallish box, but this 12" seems to be a different animal.
    Qts:0,23; Qms:5,13; Qes:0,24; Vas:90liters; Fs:45Hz; Re:5,6Ohm; BL:19Tm; Le:1,73; Xmax:6,5mm
    I know it is not a typical bass guitar driver, but looking at the graphs and being compared to Deltalite II 2512, I think (and hope) it will only sound "different" instead of "total crap" :) High Xmax alows pumping a full power into the speaker and also some EQ tweaking(?) High BL - tight response; relatively high sensitivity...
    Some WinISD graphs follow(sorry about crappy pics :/ ):
    the magnitude function looks quite terrible...
    http://ulozna.soulslavers.com/soubory/nook-090308-001605-magnitude.jpg

    but... the SPL chart(for 300W)...not that bad, only !"different"
    http://ulozna.soulslavers.com/soubory/nook-090308-001624-splchart.jpg

    and the excursion graph...
    http://ulozna.soulslavers.com/soubory/nook-090308-001634-excursion.jpg
    12ND730 is compared to Deltalite in the same (40litres) box, just different tunning. I am after some punchy sound, ultra LF not neccesary :)
    Any opinion would be appreciated ;)
    Thanks a lot, Jan...
     
  2. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The very low Qts indicates a driver intended for high sensitivity in the midbass, probably for PA. As a consequence the low end will be weak. It has enough xmax to push the lows, but will take a massive amount of power to do so. To answer the posted question, I'd say no.
     
  3. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    I can't even find a 12ND730 data listing on 18 Sound's site.

    If you want to get better webbable images you can set some closer boundaries/limits in WinISD's graphing OPTIONS (does anybody actually need to see 10 and 20 Hz, or xmax values twice as large as any subwoofer in existence, or -30 dB, or 78 and 138 dB?), and for each project on the PLOT tab use a 2 or 3 pixel pen line. I also crop my images to show only what is needed.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Commercial User

    Jan 6, 2008
    Usti nad Labem, Czech Rep.
    owner, designer and builder - www.soundelirium.com
    thanks, I've posted the pictures before I realized I could do some edits ;)
    The whole ND730 line is not listed on their website, I know. Here is the link:
    http://www.18-sound.de/pdf/12ND730.pdf
    It is listed as an "Extended L.F.neodymium driver", which seems to be confusing...I was not a 100% sure I'd use it, that's why I asked.
    Anyway, I'll reconsider my choice,
    thank you both, guys...
     
  5. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Seems that datasheet is abbreviated by 18 Sound standards. Is this a prelim or discontinued?

    Anyway, you could hone the -3dB extended bass shelf approach by tuning a bit higher (could grow the box slightly too) and then just EQ to lose some midrange if desired. It'd at least be a 12" box that doesn't run out of low end xmax - it's still gonna easily clobber the Deltalite 2512 and has the octave overtones of even low-tuned basses well represented.

    Anyone who can afford to wait, I'd see how the Em 3012 and 3012LF are first, though.
     
  6. Nook

    Nook Commercial User

    Jan 6, 2008
    Usti nad Labem, Czech Rep.
    owner, designer and builder - www.soundelirium.com
    thanx. Yes, a kind of a Kappalite 3012 was my wish a long time ago, when I compared parameters and plots of Deltalite II and Kappalite series. I hope they will cook it "bass guitar friendly" :D
    And hope the waiting won't be long... :meh:
    BTW.: the datasheet is a kind of an older one, the 18sound.de site seems to be out of date. But I emailed 18Sound and they told me, the whole 730 line is still in production
     
  7. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    I'm guessing Em will extend their Kappalite series in like, with the 3012LF being great for 3-way cabs of smaller size, and less sensitive in keeping with Hoffman's Iron Law (but a 212 3-way could be a real monster, I'm thinking). And the 3012 will likely be more sensitive than the LF version, but shy of LF extension just as the 3015 is.

    The thing about these newer Em Kappalite designs is that they seem to reflect a lot of newer R&D (besides the obvious neo part, but somewhat connected) that makes them real performers for the price. BMS, 18 Sound, Ciare, and B&C often have top drivers in various classes and some exciting tech spin, but depending on model and locale can not touch the pricing Em can bring.
     
  8. Nook

    Nook Commercial User

    Jan 6, 2008
    Usti nad Labem, Czech Rep.
    owner, designer and builder - www.soundelirium.com
    mmm...I guess you in the US can get Eminence drivers much more cheaper than other brands, right? Here in the Czech republic, there is not such a big difference between prices of Emi and e.g. B&C, 18Sound. (well, Precision Devices, RCF and D.A.S.speakers ARE pretty expensive). Wow...derailing my own thread :)
     
  9. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    A really good fit for your dimensions that can go low without running out of xmax would be the Ciare 12.00 ND W1, though I'd hunt down a 6" midrange to go with it, or a compression driver/horn combination that can cross over fairly low.

    Also worth looking at is the BMS 12N630, though I'd request a revised dataset since last time I looked the pdf they had on their website was spurious.
     
  10. Have you researched using a Beyma 12G40? I don't have any experience with it but I do own an LDS Beyma loaded cab with the 15G40 and 12MI100. They're absolutely wonderful speakers.
     
  11. Nook

    Nook Commercial User

    Jan 6, 2008
    Usti nad Labem, Czech Rep.
    owner, designer and builder - www.soundelirium.com
    mmm, thanks, I will check that Ciare... I also considered Beyma SM 112N or DAS 12L or 12P. I will see.
     

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