Wow!!! Avatar 212 crossover mod

Hmmm...I've pretty much ignored reading the other posts about this...even though I have 2 cabs from Avatar. So is the new crossover free if you are the original owner???

 

Check the threads for the 4th order HP filter by LoveThatBass. It's two orders of magnitude better than the new Avatar crossover.

 

Glad you're happy with the new design! I'm one of those who did the 4th-order mods and it was certainly worth the cost. The new 2nd-order Hi/Lo pass design is certainly a big improvement over the original design.

- Andrew

 

Just FYI, the "order" of a crossover has nothing to do with its quality. It is a measure of how many dB per octave is cut on one side of the center frequency of the crossover. Each order represents 6 dB per octave, so a first-order filter is 6 dB per ocatave, second order 12, etc. You want to select the appropriate order for the effect you're trying to achieve. Even within a certain order, there are several designs involving other factors including the bandwidth of the filter. You've got your Bessel, Butterworth, and Linkwitz-Riley filters, for example. The one I use most of the time in crossing over frequencies in my PA system is the 4th-order (24 dB per octave) Linkwitz-Riley. However, EAW sometimes recommends Bessel or Butterworth filters of various orders in EQing their systems.

 

Beg to differ. A 1st order filter offers virtually no protection for a HF driver. 2nd order is better but is rife with phase issues and allows far too much bandwidth overlap. In pro-sound use 3rd order is the minimum acceptable to give adequate protection for the HF driver and minimize bandwidth overlap. 4th order Linkwitz-Reilly gives even better protection and bandwidth isolation with minimal phase issues, while the current state of the art in passive crossovers is 3rd order low pass/5th order high pass. The various toplogies have their own individual merits, but without even considering Bessel vs Butterworth vs L-R etc, etc, etc, the fact remains that all things considered in the vast majority of applications a higher order is better than a lower order. This is one of them.

 

So you're trying to achieve HF driver protection. For that application higher is better. I'm curious why dbx, EAW, BSS, et al would even waste the time to put first-order filters in their processors. I still maintain that there are applications in which lower order filters may be chosen to accomplish a particular sonic goal, just as in parametric EQs, in which Q can be varied to meet the needs of the situation.

 

Some hi-fi purists prefer the minimal intrusion of first order filters, and in some cases the combined acoustic and electrical roll off can be the equivalent of 2nd or even 3rd order for adequate driver bandwidth isolation. But this only works if the HF unit is robust enough not to require more protection than a 1st order filter offers. 1st order HP filters are often applied with hi-fi super tweeters, with the knee placed an octave or two above the intended f3, for seamless integration with full range woofers. Neither of these scenarios would ever be encountered in pro-sound, but as far as offering the 1st order option with a digital electronic crossover there's no additional parts count required to do so, just another algorithm to enter into the program, so why not? I doubt many users employ the 8th order option either, but it looks good in the ad copy.

 

True enough, but my point is centered more on the fact that HF driver protection is not the only function of filters. You may use a 4th-order filter at the high end of the frequency spectrum, but lower-order filters down in the lows and mids.

For example, EAW recommends a 3rd-order Butterworth filter for the LPF on their JFX-260 and 290 cabinets, with 4th-order Butterworth at the high end. On the other hand, everything is 4th-order L-R for their JFX-590s and SBX-220 subs. When tri-amping or tri-amp with subs, it's not all about the HF end.

Please note I have over 10,000 posts.

 

I'm sorry but this frustrates me. I won't dispute whether or not you are very knowledgable, because you probably know an infinite amount more than I do; but saying that you post a lot or talk a lot does nothing to prove your credibility. Comments like that really weaken an argument.

I built and installed the 4th order crossover in my B212. The tweeter is seemless, its the hardest to notice tweeter I have ever heard from any cab when playing finger style. I had a hard time verifying whether or not it was working after I installed mine, until I started popping the strings. The 4th order crossover was a huge improvement. The cab still has the same general sound, just more refined- incase anyone was expecting a miracle from a $30 part. My $0.02

 

Pwned! I win.

BTW, I would point out that I have almost exactly 10,000 more posts than you do.

 

Hella-smooth, Munji.

 

Shhhhh! The hook's still in the water.

 

http://ebassist.com/vb3/images/smilies/***.gif

You are not your post count. Statements like this are arrogant, yet meaningless. You may know more than all of us combined, but posting stuff like this makes you sound like an arrogant prick. Nobody gives a crap how many posts you have. If we cared, we would check your profile. You are not a Total Hyper-Elite Member. And even if you were, i'm sure none of us STILL would care.

 

Both of you sound like arrogant pricks by derailing this thread





... so stick it I win

 

A. The bait is swallowed.
B. The hook is set.
C. I'm reelin' you in.
D. I am a Total Hyper-Elite Member, with over 10,000 posts.

Your only salvation is if you are only playing like you're incensed, which I doubt.

PS: Cute smilies.

 

See above.

 

If I may step back on track for a moment, I would just say that, while Bill has only a little more than 1,000 posts, he makes his living dealing with the subject matter, I don't. You should hang your hat on what he says. Please also note that Bill did not take the 10,000 post bait, speaking highly of his maturity, self-confidence and self-esteem (and his ability to smell a joke).