Zon basses - is everything OK ?

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by Rumblefisher, Jul 30, 2018.


  1. kesslari

    kesslari Groovin' with the Fusion Cats Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2007
    Santa Cruz Mtns, California
    Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
    I think it would be helpful to start a list (like in the DHUFF and DrBass threads) on who has orders out from what date. @gwangi I didn't catch that there were 12 year old unfilled orders still outstanding. It helps to quantify what's going on.
    If you have an order that's more than a year past your original due date pm me and I'll get a list started in this thread.
     
    DrMole, 31HZ, Arthur U. Poon and 6 others like this.
  2. gwangi

    gwangi

    Jul 4, 2009
    Forbidden Valley
    Look at page 6 posting #108: MRGITTLEMAN referred to Angus waiting 12 years is where I got this, I'm not sure if he already got his instrument or is still waiting.
    I myself do not have any new orders with Zon.
     
  3. mrgittleman

    mrgittleman

    Dec 23, 2003
    NYC
    Waited was the I word used in the past tense. He received his instrument.
     
  4. gwangi

    gwangi

    Jul 4, 2009
    Forbidden Valley
    Thank you for clarifying this info.
     
  5. kesslari

    kesslari Groovin' with the Fusion Cats Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2007
    Santa Cruz Mtns, California
    Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
    Starting this list.

    mrgittleman Aug 2016 Vinny 6
    Rumblefisher Feb 2017 Vinny set neck (now 32")
    bigsnack Nov 2018 BG4
     
    31HZ, Fuzzbass, Rabidhamster and 2 others like this.
  6. BeeTL

    BeeTL Commercial User

    Sep 26, 2006
    Oldsmar, FL
    Brad Lowe, Lowe Custom Guitars
    @Rumblefisher You are a kind and patient man. I just noticed this thread and I hope you enjoy the new build with my conversion neck...thank you!
     
    Fuzzbass and Rumblefisher like this.
  7. 31HZ

    31HZ Supporting Member

    Ah man. This thread makes me sad. I hope that folks get their instruments. :sour:
     
    GregC and Lownote38 like this.
  8. basschanges

    basschanges Unconditionally Loving Member Supporting Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    Baltimore, MD
    I have long since received my orders.

    For prospective buyers: I ordered two basses, a completely standard Vb4 and a Todd Johnson headless 32" scale. I think the Vb came at around the 2 year mark, the TJ headless was around 3 years.

    I would not have minded the wait if they were honest. Instead, I got the same brand of "oh a supplier didn't make x part right, oh we made a slight mistake on your bass and have to fix it, oh bartolini, oh hipshot..." low truth probability excuses

    I am convinced I only got the bass when I did because a.) I went to hipshot employees directly and told them what Joe was saying about their work. b.) I threatened a credit card chargeback on the second half of the payment when they balked on shipping after claiming the bass was completed and ready.

    I've read through this thread and have seen a lot of "They're so nice and pleasant" No they're not. They use you as a bank and expect you to thank them for the privilege. Anyone can be cordial over the telephone.

    All of that said, their instruments are fantastic. And no one has been outright conned. You'll get your bass eventually. Their business practices are terrible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  9. mrgittleman

    mrgittleman

    Dec 23, 2003
    NYC
     
    basschanges likes this.
  10. mrgittleman

    mrgittleman

    Dec 23, 2003
    NYC
    Thank you for posting this and it reveals the truth about their business practices. I’ve been lied to over and over again since 2016 and this is pre losing shop and pre pandemic. Have no idea why they can’t be honest.
     
  11. RichSnyder

    RichSnyder Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2003
    Usually it's because they pay for past orders with current deposits. That will work as long as new orders keep coming in at a slightly increasing pace. When new orders eventually slow down, and they always do at some point, you're left with customers with orders on the books, that have paid deposits, the deposits have long since been spent and you can only cover the materials for a quarter of the orders. The people that have paid in full should be getting theirs first, but since there is no additional revenue to be had with them, they will focus on the newer orders where the customer has only paid half or a quarter as a deposit. That's where more money is to be found. Threads like these are great to warn people, but will almost certainly hammer the final nails in the coffin. No new orders, no revenue, old orders just get excuses.
     
  12. bigsnack

    bigsnack

    Aug 24, 2005
    Los Angeles
    This is likely the most logical explanation about what's happening over there. That being said, I wonder how close they are to the brink of insolvency, especially since this thread isn't doing them any favors. Maybe the reason that some orders get completed faster is because those are the instruments that they have materials for on hand? They just need to be transparent now, because the lies and excuses aren't keeping customers quiet anymore. I would rather them be honest, because I think the community would be much more understanding, and even more helpful, if they just understood why it's happening and what's going on.

    EDIT: Also, a savvy business man likely has multiple options in this case, as long as they have their sh*t somewhat together. A business loan to clear out backlogs, then raise prices with the promise of better delivery times. Heck, there are even second jobs that can be acquired if it's truly desperate times. The key lies in the owner and how determined he is to keep his business honest and profitable. Nobody has ever questioned the quality of a Zon. If their reputation was improved regarding their business practices, I'm sure the market would withstand a sizeable uptick in prices. There are builders out there that raise prices ANNUALY, and still have 3 year wait times. The difference is that those wait times are accurate :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
  13. There really is no excuse for what Zon is doing.

    I know honesty is difficult. Pride often gets in the way. But really…the way they are doing this now is just making matters worse for everyone.
     
  14. Rumblefisher

    Rumblefisher Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    Astoria, NY
    Thanks for posting basschanges! I just wanted to address this one bit in particular...

    You aren't wrong about it being easier to be one way on the phone and another in practice. I have mentioned a few times that my conversations with Mr Zon have been pleasant...I've found that staying polite keeps outcomes positive. There's no point in giving ammunition for further discontent. At this point, it is what it is, and the *hope* is that that respect is reciprocated.

    There absolutely comes a point in certain contexts where being nice doesn't cut it. I'm personally not there yet, as I'm hoping for a builder who concedes its been a bit of a wait and in the end produces a product that will make me as a buyer happy.

    Yes, it's been a while. I'm willing to forgive that and chalk it up a series of unfortunate events (Lemony Snicket anyone?). I will admit that the request for payment for materials threw me for a loop, and I'm still hoping he comes back with a "yeah, my bad, no problem we can do the smaller scale." For me, that will be the point where I start being a little more...assertive, is the best word probably?

    Your points are well taken and I appreciate yours (and everyone else's) insight in this thread!
     
    basschanges, mrgittleman and Joshua like this.
  15. bigsnack

    bigsnack

    Aug 24, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Him asking you for more money adds credence to @RichSnyder’s comments, in that he might not have enough money on hand to cover the materials difference, and so the only way to cover it is for you to pay more.
     
  16. Rumblefisher

    Rumblefisher Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    Astoria, NY
    I get it. I feel for small business that get into that kind of cycle. I still expect the product, but I can't profess to any business savvy as to how you end that kind of cycle. Personal loans? Sell off other assets to feed the business?

    This is probably why I feel some guilt in asking for a different bass. Then again, the head of customer service said it was ok, and you have to figure he speaks for the company in the role he's in. I did say that if they just wanted to honor the original order as it was placed, I would be ok with that. I'll be honest too though, it'd go right up for sale as I just have become accustomed to something different in the span of almost 1/2 a decade.

    Again though, I'm still hopeful this will all turn out fine with all parties happy. And it would really please me tremendously to post a positive review of the bass here on talkbass.
     
    Joshua likes this.
  17. JuanB

    JuanB

    Feb 20, 2010
    Will the bass not be tainted in your view through this whole ordeal?
     
    Rumblefisher likes this.
  18. Rumblefisher

    Rumblefisher Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    Astoria, NY
    This is why I'm trying to stay positive. In the end, Mr Zon will have to most say regarding this...if he says "listen, I thought about it, you're right...it's been 4 years and I'd be happy to accommodate you as a thank you for being patient" then no, no ill will or taint at all. If there's a "listen, we can do it but hold you responsible for $1000 worth of materials" then my heart will sink. At that point it becomes a "flip" project for me, which will be a very, very unsatisfying conclusion for me.
     
    Beej and Joshua like this.
  19. JuanB

    JuanB

    Feb 20, 2010
    It makes me sad that it has reached that point for you. I wish you luck and hope that Mr. Zon sees it your way.
     
    Fuzzbass and Rumblefisher like this.
  20. Rumblefisher

    Rumblefisher Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    Astoria, NY
    Thank you. I hope so too :)
     
    J_Bass, Fuzzbass, bobunit and 2 others like this.
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Jun 21, 2021

Share This Page