chord progression question

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by b_ryceeeee, Apr 5, 2014.


  1. b_ryceeeee

    b_ryceeeee

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Working out of the "harmony & theory" book from MI and on page 120 there is an exercise where it tells you to analyze the progression, locate the key centers, and name an appropriate scale choice for each non diatonic chord. now I did all of that correctly but what I want to know is where the Ab7(#11) is coming from? heres the progression and its obviously in Gmi. Gmi, Gmi(ma7), Gmi6, Ebma7, Cmi7, Ami7(b5), D7(b9,b13), Gmi9, Cmi7, F+7(b9), Bbma7, Cmi7, F+7(#9), Bbma7, Ab7(#11), Gmi7, Ami7(b5), D+7(b9)

    So I my question isn't on anything the book is asking me to do its more of where is the Ab7(#11) coming from in this progression? sorry if I sound stupid could be because my brain is still taking it in hahaha
     
  2. Stick_Player

    Stick_Player

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Perhaps the Tritone Substitution for D7(b9). This progression seems to be in G Minor.

    Those "Augmented" Dominants may actually be Dominant b13 chords.
     
  3. b_ryceeeee

    b_ryceeeee

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    hahaha I am stupid! the whole time I was thinking it was "Ab" when it is actually A "b7" haha. sorry guys! but if it was Ab b7(#11) that actually would be the tritone substitute of D7(b9) correct?
     
  4. Stick_Player

    Stick_Player

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Why would it be: A b7, or Ab b7? Makes no sense when using this kind of chord labeling. You either misread it or it's a misprint.

    One does NOT place a "b" (♭) in front of the "7".

    It is common to use the ♭ in front of the "5", "9", or "13". It is sometimes (very rarely) used in front of "10" (enharmonic of #9). But not the "7".

    C7(b5) - C, E, Gb, Bb
    C7 (b9) - C, E, G, Bb, Db
    C7 (b13) - C, E, G, Bb, Ab

    In the progression you supplied, the explanation I gave is most logical. Of course, you did not supply the harmonic rhythm, as that is also critical.
     
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  6. b_ryceeeee

    b_ryceeeee

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    yeah scratch that. I don't know why all of a sudden I got that in my head haha but you are right! I don't know why I read it like that. so besides all of that that I had just wrote. the Ab7(#11) has to be the tritone sub of the D7(b9,b13) right?
     
  7. Stick_Player

    Stick_Player

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Tritone Sub would be the best analysis.

    Ab7(#11) - Ab, C, Eb, Gb, D
    D7(b9,b13) - D, F#, A, C, Eb, Bb

    Try these two chords that share the same notes:

    Ab9(#11) - Ab, C, Eb, Gb, Bb, D
    D7(b5,b9,b13) - D, F#, Ab, C, Eb, Bb
     
  8. davidhilton

    davidhilton Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Tis the subV/i...starts out sounding like "My Funny Valentine" to me...and just like the stickman said- get rid of those + symbols...for whatever reason, the real book tends to write out a dom7 b13 chord as a #5...after 40 years of ****ing it up, u would think they'd have learned by now...:ninja::rollno:
     
  9. b_ryceeeee

    b_ryceeeee

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    the only reason I had the "+" symbol in is because that's how the book writes the augmented chords with a "+"
     
  10. Stick_Player

    Stick_Player

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    The point we are making is that in the REAL BOOK most of the chords labeled X+7 are NOT really Augmented chords. They are most likely X7(b13),

    It's a misguided shorthand - unless you REALLY know what it means.

    It's not really an Augmented-Fifth, rather it's a Minor-Thirteenth.

    In the REAL BOOK, for example, the first five chords of Someday My Prince Will Come are labeled:

    | Bbmaj7 | D7+5 | Ebmaj7 | G7+5 | C-7

    These D7+5 (D, F#, A#, C) & G7+5 (G, B, D#, F) labels suggest a Whole-Tone sound/scale. Not the case.

    These are REALLY Dominant Seventh Flat-Thirteen chords:

    D7(b13) = D, F#, A, C, Bb - Perfect-Fifth and Minor-Thirteenth (A, Bb)
    G7(b13) = G, B, D, F, Eb - Perfect-Fifth and Minor-Thirteenth (D, Eb)

    I'll let you decide if you want some kind of Ninth, and the associated "scale(s)". ;)
     

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