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Unusual Chord?

#81
I'm aware that there are multiple ways it could be described. The OP described it as being built on a D, and he didn't mention any other chords, or give the structure of the song, and I'd be inclined to name it with the D as the root, and to call it an add 9 rather than an add 2 because he specifically named the E as an octave above.

He asked for opinions, based on what he provided: that's mine. I'd reject "D5" as not being an actual chord. But these are my opinions and I believe this is why it's called music theory and not music fact;)
 
#84
Stick_Player said:
Is this a musical round and it's my turn, yet again, to repeat myself? :hyper:

I guess so... the "add 9" is the top voice, making it clearly some kind of "9" chord - D1​, A1​, D, E.

You may call these 'chords' anything you wish. I'll stick with my method and have success conveying what I want to and through qualified musicians.
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This is how I learned chord name in classical music. the 9th has to be the highest note of the chord to be the "add9" if there is no 3rd
 
#85
In my band I'm the only one who knows theory, so when I showed this chord to one of the guitarists a while back I just called it "The Prog Chord" since it's a very common progressive music sound, and moving the shape around anywhere in arpeggios sounds almost like a Dream Theater song. But I think sus2 seems correct considering there is no 3rd.
 
#86
slybass3000 said:
Well ,

D5 add9 is very accurate from what he described so are the other ones I just mentioned before.

But again, without actual key center or musical context it is hard to tell but I'm sure if he reads back what is in this thread, he will be able to make up his mind ;-)
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Yeah, looking back over it I'd probably go with different names depending on what I was doing. I usually called it a double fifth before, but the other ones would tell you more about the rest of the progression.
 
#87
VincentSalizeri said:
While generally noodling around on a friend's guitar, I accidentally stumbled upon a rather awkward, yet somehow still warm, chord. It was D, A, and E an octave up. Now, I know that's two fifths, and it's also a fifth with a second plus an octave. Beyond that, I have no idea what it's called and I haven't really seen it get much use. Does anybody out there have any idea what it is?
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I would call a chord made of consecutive fifths, a ninth.
 
#88
Stick_Player said:
D - D, F#, A

Dadd2 - D, E, F#, A

Dsus2 - D, E, A

D7 - D, F#, A, C

D9 - D, F#, A, C, E

Dadd9 - D, F#, A, E

Dadd9(no3rd) - D, A, E >>> this is the OP's chord.
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Stick_Player said:
My goodness. :rollno: Cite these incidences for me. I'll be more than happy to defog you. :D
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So you persist is saying that D E A is a different chord than is D A E. Your reason is that the sus2 requires the close interval. I and others have asserted that the voicing doesn't change the name of the chord, (at least without context)*​. That's why I suggested that your logic would preclude calling D A C F# a D7 because it's not the same as D F# A C.

John


*​ The notes D F# A B could be, depending on context, two different chords- either D6 or Bmin7. Now if it's just these four notes in this order without context I'd say it's D6, but if it was played just before an E7 or the bassist played a B, I'd certainly call it Bmin7 even if the guitar or piano voiced it D F# A B. Context is vital.
 
#89
JTE said:
So you persist is saying that D E A is a different chord than is D A E. Your reason is that the sus2 requires the close interval. I and others have asserted that the voicing doesn't change the name of the chord, (at least without context)*​. That's why I suggested that your logic would preclude calling D A C F# a D7 because it's not the same as D F# A C.

John
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No, my logic wouldn't suggest that at all.

JTE said:
*​ The notes D F# A B could be, depending on context, two different chords- either D6 or Bmin7. Now if it's just these four notes in this order without context I'd say it's D6, but if it was played just before an E7 or the bassist played a B, I'd certainly call it Bmin7 even if the guitar or piano voiced it D F# A B. Context is vital.
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Yes, I do NOT disagree with that.

An Ab Augmented Sixth Chord (i.e., Ab, C, Eb, F#) sounds the same, on it's own, as an Ab Dominant Seventh (i.e., Ab, C, Eb, Gb), but they do NOT function the same. Context is vital.

For instance and within context, as you've pointed out, a D6 (D, F#, A, B) is NOT the same as a Bm7 (B, D, F#, A) even if the Bm7 is in first inversion (D, F#, A, B).

Sure, on their own and without context, Bm7/D could sound identical to a B6.

I think there is not a thorough understanding of "Added Note" chords and "Suspended" chords and their differences in this post.

"Added Note" chords do not need to necessarily resolve AND contain the Third.

A few examples:

C add 2 - ex: C, D, E, G or C, D, Eb, G

C add 6 - ex: C, E, G, A or C, Eb, G, A

C add 9 - ex: C, E, G, D or C, Eb, G, D

C add 6/9 - ex: C, E, G, A, D or C, Eb, G, A, D

I have seen different labels used for these chords by not using "add", such as C6/9 or C6

Then there are "Suspended" chords. In the "Suspended" chord, the note that is being suspended usually is followed with a resolution to the Third (major or minor) of the chord.

sus2 - ex: C, D, G resolves to either C, E, G or C, Eb, G

sus4 - ex: C, F, G resolves to either C, E, G or C, Eb, G

This is why the OP's chord of question is a D add 9 (no 3rd), since the vital context is excluded or does not exist and the pitches are spaced Perfect Fifths apart.

That's the logic.

* * * *

Additionally, there are "Suspended Slash" chords - such as C/D (C, E, G with D in the bass). These could be relabeled X9sus4 or X11. This is a whole other subject.
 
#90
If this thread shows anything at all: chord symbols are utterly inadequate to show the exact voicings meant by the composer/arranger. Any attempt to repair these flaws with slashes, numbers or other adds :D is bound to fail.

If you want to make sure people will play exactly what you mean, use written music. It is THE professional way.

If you want to use symbols anyway, be prepared to accept different harmonic renderings.

BTW: it's the guitards who are to blame for this. Just try to find one who is willing to omit/damp a 3rd while he/she can put a finger on it just like that... while for centuries composers have been preferring to not double the 3rd in the upper voices in chords in 1st inversion...

Now about to the OP's D A E and which chord symbol is best IMHO.
If D is the root, we shall need a letter D to start with. Just 'D' would be D F# A. This indicates that we normally write nothing more if a chord has a major 3rd and a perfect 5th. The perfect 5th A is there, nothing else needs to be said about it. the 3rd F# however is missing, which is a problem, since the vast majority of the chords we use has a 3rd in it, either major (just 'D', see above) or minor (Dm). All common knowledge.

Another way to do something with the 3rd is the the indication 'sus', short for 'suspended'. It's the 3rd we are suspending here, folks. Don't tell me you didn't know that. It means that the 'sus'-note is supposed to resolve into the 3rd shortly, though not always, as Richard wrote, and - my add - this 3rd may also be part of a following chord and represent a new interval in that following chord.

Therefore, if the chord after the OP's D A E would have F# in it, Dsus2 would be the correct way to write it, since this symbol will indicate that:
- the 3rd F# is to be omitted
- F# will be part of the next chord

But if the note F# is not going to come up shortly, or even stronger, if the note E is or may be going to resolve downward, E should be interpreted as a 9th, since functionally, 9ths are meant to resolve downward. As D9 would imply a 3rd, omitting the 3rd should have to be indicated somehow, leading to the symbol D9 (no3rd).

However, IMHO the use of this (no3rd) is limited. It will only have meaning in rather open harmonies, and both guitarists and keyboard players should know the golden rule: if the bass plays a distinct, important 3rd somewhere, don't play it in the upper voices.
 
#95
Didn't read the whole thread, but it is a quartal chord. Quartal structures (built from usually perfect but also augmented fourths) probably evolved from suspensions that didn't resolve, and became very popular in the late 19th century. They are found with great frequency in music by by early 20th century composers like Hindemith, Bartok, Copland, and most everyone else. Many times they are found with four or five factors, the more factors added, the more tense the structure becomes. You hear this kind of structure in jazz music, McCoy Tyner was quite fond of using them in parallel motion, sometimes called "planing". A few contributors mentioned that quartal chords (sometimes called "fourth chords") have an indeterminate quality. When, as in the original post, these structures are voiced in fifths, they are sometimes referred to as "quintal", but they still belong to the quartal family. When voiced as P5ths the sound is bright and ringing, voiced as P4ths, the effect is a little darker and hollow. These are obviously highly subjective statements and quite likely not agreed-to by all.
 
#96
Some of these symbols are a little ambiguous. I can say this much; the add2 suffix does mean (in most theory books) to add a major second above the root of whatever quality triad is indicated by the case; for instance C (2) would indicate C major with added D natural. The added-tone in parentheses is fairly standard as is "add 2" (or whatever). If the added-tone carries an alteration, it shows up thusly: C (#4) , or C add #4. "Sus" suffixes are more vague, the question of what to omit, or what to include always causes discussion.


However, and this is important: there are some differences in nomenclature from country to country, so no real need for any big dust-ups over this kind of stuff.
 
#97
buddyro57 said:
Didn't read the whole thread, but it is a quartal chord. Quartal structures (built from usually perfect but also augmented fourths) probably evolved from suspensions that didn't resolve, and became very popular in the late 19th century. They are found with great frequency in music by by early 20th century composers like Hindemith, Bartok, Copland, and most everyone else. Many times they are found with four or five factors, the more factors added, the more tense the structure becomes. You hear this kind of structure in jazz music, McCoy Tyner was quite fond of using them in parallel motion, sometimes called "planing". A few contributors mentioned that quartal chords (sometimes called "fourth chords") have an indeterminate quality. When, as in the original post, these structures are voiced in fifths, they are sometimes referred to as "quintal", but they still belong to the quartal family. When voiced as P5ths the sound is bright and ringing, voiced as P4ths, the effect is a little darker and hollow. These are obviously highly subjective statements and quite likely not agreed-to by all.
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This, quartal harmony does not lend itself to tertial names easily. A very interesting subject, and one it seems best not to over-analyze.
 
#98
VincentSalizeri said:
While generally noodling around on a friend's guitar, I accidentally stumbled upon a rather awkward, yet somehow still warm, chord. It was D, A, and E an octave up. Now, I know that's two fifths, and it's also a fifth with a second plus an octave. Beyond that, I have no idea what it's called and I haven't really seen it get much use. Does anybody out there have any idea what it is?
Click to expand...

I'd call that a D Major 2nd chord... no idea if thats right, but its got the root, 5th and Major 2nd.. so why not.

They use those chords a lot in black metal, e.g. Dimmu Borgir.

My guitarist is currently going through a phase of these M2 chords... I think they're awful sounding, at least with distortion, in a metal/hardcore setting. :crying:
 

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