What's the differences between the sizes as far as sound with UB? Specifically, the difference between the MB112 and the MB115, which are both 200W...does the 12 handle that same amount of watts differently? I've heard from some that 15s are usually too flubby or loose sounding, but that a 10" can be boomy as well, is the 12 a good compromise?
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Double Bass 12" vs. 15" speaker
- Thread starter dbass87
- Start date
Speaker size doesn't equate to tone. There are good and bad cab designs around 10's, 12's, and 15's. Mostly, I'd figure that the MB115 will have a little more volume capability (more speaker area) at the cost of larger size.
- Nov 24, 2008
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- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Agreed.
The Theile-Small parameters of the woofer, plus box size and tuning, are what determine the low frequency characteristics of a bass cab - not the cone diameter all by itself.
As one who's dabbled in speaker design a bit, it's generally easier to make a decent two-way system with a smaller woofer because smaller woofers usually match up with the tweeter better than larger woofers.
I'm sure there are wonderful 15' speakers on the market, but I don't like most of them, somehow too slow, and lack of details for me.
Meaning that 12" would match up to the tweeter better? Maybe this is a dumb question, but wouldn't the amp designer make the best possible woofer/tweeter match in a specific amp, regardless of size?
I'm not sure I understand how one amp is slower?? There shouldn't be any delay when you strike a note... please enlighten me
I'm not sure I understand how one amp is slower?? There shouldn't be any delay when you strike a note... please enlighten me
I think we are talking about speakers 10" & 12" Speakers vs 15" Speakers not amplifiers, aren't we? Actually, I prefer the dual 8" drivers in the VL 208 and LDS 2X8 Three Way for Double Bass. Just my preference though. I tried out the Thunderchild in the fall and it sounded great with my DB and Amp too, So does my old B-15 N which has a unique cabinet design.
Ric
Yes, that's what the cabinet (not amp) designer does. Duke was implicitly suggesting that larger cones have an inherently lower roll-off frequency sometimes making it difficult to achieve a seamless frequency response as one crosses over from the woofer to the tweeter. As the frequency is raised and the response of the woofer rolls off, the idea is that the tweeter starts to pick up the response. If the woofer can't reach high enough, one can get a dip in the response at/near the crossover point. Two things are true. First, there certainly have been some fine two-way designs using a 15" woofer (at least for musical reproduction). Second, I've never used, nor will I use, a two-way cab to amplify the double bass. A single driver has worked fine for me.
I'm not sure I understand how one amp is slower?? There shouldn't be any delay when you strike a note... please enlighten me
This is terminology applied to a speaker system (not an amp) with regard to its low-frequency response. A "slow" system refers to one that has less than desirable damping such that it "rings" on transients that contain low-frequency energy. It can be a function of the woofer, the tweeter, or both as it takes a broadband spectrum to reproduce a transient. In plain English, such a system tends to sound a bit "muddy" in the low end such that it lacks articulation.
You'll find a lot of people with different but strongly held opinions on this topic. My suggestion is use your ears and make your own call.
I get some nice sounds out of amps with 15s, 12s and 10s for an upright bass with a realist pickup. But none of them sound really acoustic, because amps color the sound. For small gigs I use a 12, for bigger stuff I use a 15.
I get some nice sounds out of amps with 15s, 12s and 10s for an upright bass with a realist pickup. But none of them sound really acoustic, because amps color the sound. For small gigs I use a 12, for bigger stuff I use a 15.
Oh ok... thanks Drurb, that helps somewhat. Sorry for the confusion in the amp/speaker diction as well, but I did mention two combo amps in the first post, which is why I was thinking in those terms... Any observations about those two amps (the MB112 and MB115) in terms of how their speakers affect their sound differently, even though they are the same wattage?
I've always found that a 12" speaker produces more midrange, a 2X10 will be smoother and a little more scooped, and a 15 has more bottom and low mids. Depending on your bass, strings, and pickup, any of them can be good. All in all, I like a 2X10 best for upright, or a single 10. I've never been that crazy about 12s for bass. When I play a P-Bass, I love using two Bag End 15s.
I prefer an SWR Triad: ported 1X15 + 1X10 + adjustible tweeter. It's like a stereo or PA cab on steroids: very smooth, very clean, and eminently flexible. The drawback? It does weigh a few more pounds. Yeah, I had to install casters to deal with it. But it's clean and neutral enough I've also used it as a backup PA cap in a pinch, both for background music and voice announcing, and even for keys.
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Well it depends on the specific woofer and tweeter involved, but often what happens in bass cabs is the woofer rolls off lower than the tweeter rolls on. And even if the response of woofer and tweeter match up fairly well on-axis, if the woofer is beaming badly at the crossover frequency the off-axis response may not be very smooth. I am of the opinion that the off-axis response is the most important.
Considering the types of tweeters often found in bass cabs, typically a 12" woofer will indeed match up better. Like most things in loudspeaker design, it's a tradeoff; in general, a 15" woofer will move more air and play a bit louder than its 12" counterpart, and usually (but not always) go deeper, given sufficient box size.
The cab designer has to juggle these and other tradeoffs, all of which are constrained by a budget, so getting the "best possible" woofer/tweeter match may or may not end up high on the priority list. Of course the designer tries to do the best he can with what he has to work with. In my opinion the VL-208 is a rather extreme example of "how to do it right" if getting a good blend between woofer and tweeter is a priority: Use a midrange (or two) in between the woofer and tweeter.
I concur this opinion. Honestly the only reason I bother with 12''combos is the portability. Then I try to get rid of the mids...not very succesfully. I'm looking forward to try the new GK 2x10 combo. It's similar weight as my Markbass mini CMD 1x12.
I don't doubt that you have found this with the cabs you've used. Still, it's not at all a necessary outcome at all. It depends on the specific design. For example, there's no reason that a system employing a 12" driver necessarily would produce "more midrange" than one employing a 2 X 10" configuration. As Duke points out, practical and budgetary considerations make some configurations easier to work with from the standpoint of design.
By the way, one of the "fastest," lowest distortion, highly efficient low-frequency systems for musical reproduction ever produced, and one which can develop extremely high sound-pressure levels, is one that employs a single 15" driver. It's all in the design.
while we're at it what do you guys think about 8" drivers? I have the GB Shuttle 3.0 w/the 8" driver. I've thought about adding the addition 8" speaker for more volume. I like the portability and sound of the single 8". any +- w/8" drivers?
Not claiming this to be scientific, but it has been a fairly consistant impression, with a reasonable-sized sampling of different cabinets.
