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Something cool for Sansamp RBI/RPM users...

JGR

JGR

The "G" is for Gustav
Commercial User
Jun 29, 2006
5,148
3,214
Huntsville
www.facebook.com
Disclosures
President, CEO, CFO, CIO, Chief Engineer, Technician, Janitor - Reiner Amplification
#1
I doubt many of you have either a pair, or one each of the Sansamp RPM and/or RBI.... but I'll share this anyway. I have one of each and I find the RBI to be on the bright side while the RPM is on the dark side, so it got me thinking that I would really like to combine the two at once. Now I do this to a degree when I run each at the same time into separate power amps and cabs, but it's still not quite the same thing and makes for a large rig. I believe the Landmark heads to have the ability to run both channels at the same time, but the Tech 21 manuals only show how to use a pair of the preamps for bi-amping or channel switching. I asked Tech 21 a while back about combining two at once and they said I would have to get some kind of mixer to combine the outputs before going into a power amp. All the small line mixers I could find look pretty cheap so I decided not to go that route. At first, I tried a passive Radial AB/Y as I could run it in reverse, and lift one of the grounds, but it was horrid with all kinds of humming, noise, etc. :hmm: what to do...

Well, I just figured out that these preamps can be combined without any additional outboard gear, and with stellar results. I plugged my bass into the RPM, sent the uneffected 1/4 output into the input on the back of the RBI, took the effected 1/4 output from there back into the return on the RPM's effects loop with the 50/50 switch engaged, and viola!!!, it worked perfectly. No phasing issues, noise, overloading, nada. :bassist: I can control the relative mix of the two by the master volume on the RBI while the overall signal output to the poweramp is still controlled by the RPM. Together, they really balance eachother out and there are endless possibilites, running one clean with the other dirty, playing with the blend controls on each, etc. etc. Since each preamp is only contributing to roughly half of the output signal, I have found that you can get away with running gain and EQ at more drastic settings than what would work by themselves. This rig can produce some serious grind while retaining all kinds of clarity.. oh so yummy. :)

So, if any of you have a pair, give it a shot!

Cheers,

JR
 
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#4
I've been wondering about the switching capabilities of these pre-s, namely, can you use them for a two-bass, two pre setup, basically switching the active pre and thereby switching basses too?

Thanks for the help!

c-boy
 
#5
yup, if you had a pair of either or one of each, you can wire them together and toggle between them using a footswitch, basically using them as a two channel preamp. tech 21 has diagrams for this in the manuals. i believe you would only use a single input however.

JR
 
#6
I like my RBI but I just scored a new RPM because I read your postings about how great they are together.

I'm curious... would the XLR out from the RPM be used by the sound guy or would the output of the RBI? I assume RPM if I'm understanding your way of connecting them correctly.

Thanks.
 
#8
Well, I thought this was going to be the ultimate for me but after trying it I can hear no indication that this combines the signals. In fact it kind of kills the RPM signal. I hear nothing from the RBI; even when making drastic changes in settings. Zero.

I also tried it the other way around (the RBI as the input) but it was the same thing. A loss of RBI signal and nothing from the RPM.

I have it hooked up exactly as described. Has anyone else tried this?
 
#9
spikemacgee said:
I have it hooked up exactly as described. Has anyone else tried this?
Click to expand...

Yep. I've been running my RBI and RPM in parallel for months now... major props to JGR for the suggestion. For awhile I ran the RPM as the main with the RBI in the FX loop, but I just switched to the other way 'round... I think I like it better that way.

As for your problem: assuming you have everything wired correctly, it's likely that your levels aren't set right. I have the -20dB pads engaged on both preamps. I also make sure that the Level control is set high enough in whichever preamp is in the FX loop.

I hope you figure out the problem. Running the RPM and RBI in parallel gives me the best of both worlds.
 
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#10
Thanks Fuzzbass. I think the -20dB buttons were the key. Now I can hear everything change as I mess around with the settings on both units.

Now with all these possibilities at my finger tips I just need to spend some time finding my sweet spot. I think either you or JGR posted your settings somewhere. I will have to track that down and see how they compare to mine so far. I like a pretty agressive rock tone so this is great.

Oh, and I decided to go through the RBI first as well, although I will probably try it the other way again just to see which I like better.
 
#11
Fuzzbass said:
Yep. I've been running my RBI and RPM in parallel for months now... major props to JGR for the suggestion. For awhile I ran the RPM as the main with the RBI in the FX loop, but I just switched to the other way 'round... I think I like it better that way.

As for your problem: assuming you have everything wired correctly, it's likely that your levels aren't set right. I have the -20dB pads engaged on both preamps. I also make sure that the Level control is set high enough in whichever preamp is in the FX loop.

I hope you figure out the problem. Running the RPM and RBI in parallel gives me the best of both worlds.
Click to expand...

Good suggestions Ken!

Sorry to hear that it hasn't worked for you yet, but maybe we can help you double check things as it really does work well.

JR
 
#12
spikemacgee said:
Thanks Fuzzbass. I think the -20dB buttons were the key. Now I can hear everything change as I mess around with the settings on both units.

Now with all these possibilities at my finger tips I just need to spend some time finding my sweet spot. I think either you or JGR posted your settings somewhere. I will have to track that down and see how they compare to mine so far. I like a pretty agressive rock tone so this is great.

Oh, and I decided to go through the RBI first as well, although I will probably try it the other way again just to see which I like better.
Click to expand...

Excellent!! :) I'm glad they're working right for ya, and I hope you get the tone(s) you're looking for.

Speaking of which, here is how I get tone from my RBI/RPM combo, regardless of how they're wired. I use the RBI for sparkle. To that end, I keep Presence around noon. I use the RPM for punch. So, I boost mids around 200Hz -- that is, the Sweep Mid is set around 9 o'clock, give or take. On both units I set Blend between 11 and 1 o'clock.

On both units the EQ (sweep mid excepted) is set close to flat... although that will vary depending on factors such as the bass I'm playing, the band I'm playing with (blues? modern rock?), ambient acoustics, etc. I also set Drive to taste, and that depends mostly on the output level of the bass. I usually go for gentle overdrive. With my active Sadowsky, the Drive controls are set around 9 o'clock or lower.

I encourage you to experiment to your heart's content... just remember that a little tweak will go a long way. Have fun!
 
#13
Thanks to Fuzzbass and JGR. It's working great and sounds like a dream. Our guitar player was stunned at the monstrous sound it projects.

I'm still experimenting with the mids on the RPM to give the RBI more meat. I go about 9:00 on the blends. I guess I like a little more color in the sound. The drive controls are at about 11:00 on the RBI and maybe 9:30 on the RPM so it's pretty aggressive with my P bass.

I'm looking to get some extra patch cables and perhaps improve the quality while I'm at it. All my current cables are unbalanced and they sound ok. Is there any point to getting balanced ones? Does anyone know if the inputs and outputs used in this configuration are balanced or unbalanced?

I use a QSC PLX 1602 for my power and I know the input on that is balanced but the unbalanced cable I have from the RBI to it works fine.

Also, if you know of any place that makes quality patch cables in 1 and 2 foot lengths that doesn't want your first born for one I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know.

Thanks.
 
#14
spikemacgee said:
Thanks to Fuzzbass and JGR. It's working great and sounds like a dream. Our guitar player was stunned at the monstrous sound it projects.

I'm still experimenting with the mids on the RPM to give the RBI more meat. I go about 9:00 on the blends. I guess I like a little more color in the sound. The drive controls are at about 11:00 on the RBI and maybe 9:30 on the RPM so it's pretty aggressive with my P bass.

I'm looking to get some extra patch cables and perhaps improve the quality while I'm at it. All my current cables are unbalanced and they sound ok. Is there any point to getting balanced ones? Does anyone know if the inputs and outputs used in this configuration are balanced or unbalanced?

I use a QSC PLX 1602 for my power and I know the input on that is balanced but the unbalanced cable I have from the RBI to it works fine.

Also, if you know of any place that makes quality patch cables in 1 and 2 foot lengths that doesn't want your first born for one I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

glad to hear it's working for you. just use regular 1/4" cables to connect the units together (unbalanced). check out lavacable.com for great cables at great prices. mark will make whatever length you need. i wouldn't bother with a balanced connection to your poweramp unless you aren't getting enough signal to fully drive it. by balanced, i assume you mean xlr connectors rather than 1/4"? just FYI, regular 1/4" cables will handle a balanced signal just fine. hope that helps.

JR
 
#15
spikemacgee said:
Thanks to Fuzzbass and JGR. It's working great and sounds like a dream. Our guitar player was stunned at the monstrous sound it projects.


Also, if you know of any place that makes quality patch cables in 1 and 2 foot lengths that doesn't want your first born for one I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Orange County offers a lot of different balanced and shielded cables.
http://www.speakerrepair.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=agc_patch_cables
Good Luck
 
#17
I have a PSA-1 (not the 1.1). In fact it's some sort of rare limited edition thing they did so it's a redish color instead of silver.

At any rate, it does an alright job for bass. I only played with it a little with my bass but it does some of what the RBI does, although the controls on the RBI make more sense to me with bass for some reason. The RBI was great for bass out of the box so I stuck with it.

I use the PSA-1 for guitar. It has some great tones there. My only complaint is it doesn't have a detachable power cable (which I think the 1.1 does). I've heard the 1.1 isn't quite as good, but I don't know if that's true or why.
 
#18
Hi JM,
what a great post.. Perfect timing too. I am looking into either the RBI or RPM as a pre for my new Crown XTi2000. I don't have the cash to buy both yet so would you recommend the RBI or RPM first? Also, while I am picking your brain, do you know where I can download the manual for the RPM??? I found a link here on the site for the RBI manual but can't find one here or on the Tech 21 site for the RPM. I am still trying to find my way around this great talk bass site.. so I hope I can find my way back here if you respond.
thanks
 
#19
basswalker2004 said:
Hi JM,
what a great post.. Perfect timing too. I am looking into either the RBI or RPM as a pre for my new Crown XTi2000. I don't have the cash to buy both yet so would you recommend the RBI or RPM first? Also, while I am picking your brain, do you know where I can download the manual for the RPM??? I found a link here on the site for the RBI manual but can't find one here or on the Tech 21 site for the RPM. I am still trying to find my way around this great talk bass site.. so I hope I can find my way back here if you respond.
thanks
Click to expand...

I would recommend the RPM as I find it to be more versatile. It's inherently less scooped in the mids, and the parametric mids really add a lot of flexibility. I prefer the overdrive too. I may have an e-copy of the manual at work - PM me your email and I'll look on Monday.

JR
 

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