I'm looking really hard into replacing the pre-amp section in my yba-200. I've already got the Tesla KT-88's. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to get pre-amp wise? I'm looking for a nice warm smooth sound with plenty of thump. One more thing, if I replace tubes on this thing do I have to do anything besides just unplug the old tubes and stick the new ones in?? Maybe I'm a rookie, but rookies gotta learn somehow. Thanks guys..
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Traynor YBA-200 Tube Upgrade
- Thread starter jackall237
- Start date
Put a nice quality 12AT7 (or even a 5751) tube in the V1 slot, and you WILL notice a huge change in the tone stack for this amp. Less noise and much less gain...you'll actually be able to use the treble control above 5, and you'll have more "clean" headroom for the entire amp. Others have also put the same type of tube in V2, but I found it unnecessary as a clean 12AX7 in V2 (I use a GE 7025) seems to work with the lower gain V1 tube quite nicely.
Jay
Jay
You're looking to try the tung-sol 5751 then. It has a deeper/warmer tone than any other 12ax7 type. This is according to most audiophile types, but I gave some a try in a few bass amps and guitar amps. (I think they'd work great in tameing some of the harsher upper mid/treble of the yba200 or in turn it might make it muddy) I definatly agree with the audiophiles on this one, the amps I tried them in where thickend up and toned down more than any other preamp tube I've tried. If you don't like those or have a hard time getting them, then try JJ's.
No you will have to rebias the output stage to suit th KT88. This probably means pulling the chassis and possibly modifing the negative bias circuit to get the correct voltage. In a word DON'T. The voltages present in ths amp are dangerous and WILL KILL you if you make a mistake!! Pre-amp tubes you can experiment with. The 12--7 series and their industrial siblings will all work more or less the same except for gain.
Paul
I think I might give the 5751 a shot.. and so far I've heard, it's plug and play and also IT WILL KILL YOU.. Needless to say, I'm confused.. I guess it's plug or die?
The YBA-200 is auto-biasing...which, while it means that the bias settings might not be optimal for different tube types, you can just pull and plug. Just turn the power off, unplug, and wait a bit before pulling and plugging and you'll be fine...I've messed with all the tubes on mine countless times...it's easy to work with.
I recommend a JAN Philips or NOS 12AT7 or 5751...they've worked wonders in my amp.
There is, by the way, NO option or set of pots to manually do anything with the bias on the YBA-200.
Jay
Just for interest, why do you want to change the output tubes anyway??? Don't you think that if the designers of the amp thought that KT88s were a better tube for the design they would have used them in the first place?
An auto bias circuit is designed to compensate between different samples of the OEM tube, not to allow an end user to use a different tube completely, one that has completely different drive requirements. If the bias IS wrong and the tubes run away you can blow the output transformer before you can switch the amp back off again. What you want to do is akin to dropping a Ford motor into a Chevy. Yes it can be done. Will it perform better - questionable!
You must also keep in mind that the answers you get on this and any other forum are from people who have nothing invested in you, your equipment or anything you do. None! If you follow advice garnered from any source on the internet make sure you know precisely what the qualifications of that source are. Swap the tubes - amp blows up - YOU are the ONLY one who is going to pay for the damage.
An auto bias circuit is designed to compensate between different samples of the OEM tube, not to allow an end user to use a different tube completely, one that has completely different drive requirements. If the bias IS wrong and the tubes run away you can blow the output transformer before you can switch the amp back off again. What you want to do is akin to dropping a Ford motor into a Chevy. Yes it can be done. Will it perform better - questionable!
You must also keep in mind that the answers you get on this and any other forum are from people who have nothing invested in you, your equipment or anything you do. None! If you follow advice garnered from any source on the internet make sure you know precisely what the qualifications of that source are. Swap the tubes - amp blows up - YOU are the ONLY one who is going to pay for the damage.
I talked to a Yorkville tech a while back, he talked like he was a building these things back in the dinosaur days. And he told me that the Sovteks that come stock in it are horrible to begin with. After that, I asked him if I could switch out KT88's and he said it was no sweat and it was actually a better tube for the amp. So that's why I'm not worried about what was put in the head stock.. thanks for your concern though.
- Dec 13, 2006
- 206
- 1
- Disclosures
- East Coast Sales Coordinator - Crafter Guitars
I put EH 12AX7s in the V1 & V2 positions of the preamp of my YBA200 and noticed a much warmer sound right off the bat. The distortion was also more musical sounding and not as harsh as the stock preamp tubes. Personally, I like how the 12AX7 in the V1 starts distorting early, that's why I bought an all-tube amp. I like the roar you can get out of it when you crank the gain. Decide what tone you're going for and then start playing around with tubes. You can find most preamp tubes of the 12AX/AT, etc. variety for under $15 each at tubedepot.com or thetubestore.com. Order a couple different ones and try them out to see which ones you like the best.
Your intent with this post - you need to be careful of the insinuations you make...especially given that you are a brand new member of this community. This is easily one of THE MOST helpful, most professional community bulletin boards on the internet, period. Many members make their living professionally by playing the bass - either with a touring group or as session musicians - so their advice is typically well-thought out and professional in nature.
Do you own the Traynor YBA-200? If not, you need to get out of this thread - respectfully, of course. The owner's manual (and pretty much anyone at Traynor if you call them) will tell you that the amp was designed to work with MULTIPLE types of power tubes, and, in fact, swapping to find different tone solutions is encouraged by the company. It is a "selling point" for them with this amp, AND they offer a no-fault, whatever-happens warranty for two years.
Do a search on the YBA-200 here on TB....MANY, MANY users (and in fact several Traynor techs) advise that KT-88's are a better match for this amp for many applications. Your assertions are, in fact, uninformed and incorrect - however well-intentioned they might be.
Jay
It's not like the amp designers/manufacturers think nobody's going to touch the amps. People have been upgrading equipment for as long as it's been manufactured.
But putting on a different carb and intake setup and a different cam along with an exhaust upgrade(as long as they work together) can yield much better than stock results. Questionable? Not if you've done your homework. Experimenting is the key. That's why there's a huge aftermarket for parts and services in both the hot rodding and music world.
So why would anyone listen to you much join this or any other forum. And coincidentally, why are you here? Besides, Traynor has a 2 year unlimited EVEN IF YOU BREAK IT warranty. Why not experiment to get better results? There is plenty of information here an on the web of people who have been modding their YBA200s with spectacular results and no problems whatsoever.
And on a personal note, I'm bothered by the 'you can't do that' attitude. If we all thought that way, we wouldn't be typing on our pc's eating microwaved popcorn and watching satellite tv. There's no way we could do all that. This is just my $.02
I felt like I was getting attacked for a little bit, now I feel like I'm getting taken up for.. Thanks for all the help. I kind of think I'm sold on the 5751 idea and upgrade the 12ax7 to a Tesla. If you have any other suggestions let me know, I'm open.. Thanks a lot!!
Why am I here??
MMmm Let me see. I'm here because I would like to pass on some of the knowledge that I garnered across nearly fifty years of both playing bass and designing, building, repairing and modifying tube amplifiers. All the mistakes I have made and the successes I have had.
You can't do that.
If my warnings stop one person from delving inside an amplifier such as the Traynor when he/she has absolutely no idea what he/she is doing and thus saves his/her life, I consider that a good thing. Would you encourage some one to climb a utility pole and experiment with the wiring?? Of course you would not but that's only 240V not the 600 odd inside a 200W tube amp.
The two year warranty is all very well but what after that period ends? Who pays then? Experiment yes but know precisely what you are doing first. Spectacular results? I wonder how many people damaged their equipment for each spectacular result. How many on this forum would admit to "I did this or that and my amp disintegrated"? No problems whatsoever? I very much doubt that. I have read many post on this and other sites and have shaken my head at the ideas some posters present. Techs around the world make a living repairing amplification equipment not just failed units but those that have been "experimented " on. The only reason people want to swap tubes is because they can be pulled out easily. How many posts do you see from someone who wants to change the output devices in their SS amps? What posts say "will I get more tone if I replace the TL072 in my pre-amp with a Burr Brown ORP whatever???? That many hey! - I thought so!
Your two cents worth.
Many advances have been made by people who did not listen to "you can't do that". We are talking about a tube amplifier here not rocket science. There has not been all that many advances in tube amps in the last fifty years. I have a schematic for a 1000W (thousand) tube amp dated from the sixties when the KT88 was born. You may get tone that is closer to your ideal by swapping out pre-amp tubes but you should be very very carefull what you do to the output stage including the phase splitter. Some amps bias the output tubes before a driver tube and changing that could de-stabilise the output stage. The voltages inside the amp WILL kill you very easily. That is all I am trying to discourage nothing more.
If you would prefer me not to give my advice to you - fine don't ask. To the other people who do ask for that advice from me, and the other knowledgeable people on this site, I will give advice based on what I have learned across the years. If I don't know I'll keep silent.
Paul
I've swapped the power tubes in my YBA200 for JJ KT88's. I'm not dead and neither is the amp. In fact, it sounds a huge amount better than it ever did with the ****** stock tubes.
I have a JJ 12AX7 in V1 and a JJ 12AT7 in V2. Fatter bass, Growlier mids and much more managable treble after changing them.
To BassmanPaul: Sounds like you have many years more experience than I do when it comes to amps and I know you only have the guys best interests at heart but it's really not a big deal swapping the tubes in this amp.
I have a JJ 12AX7 in V1 and a JJ 12AT7 in V2. Fatter bass, Growlier mids and much more managable treble after changing them.
To BassmanPaul: Sounds like you have many years more experience than I do when it comes to amps and I know you only have the guys best interests at heart but it's really not a big deal swapping the tubes in this amp.
I asked above if you own the YBA-200. You haven't answered that question - and I don't give a fig if you have 100 years of tube amp experience when it's obvious you haven't read the owner's manual for this particular tube amp or spoken to the company that made it with regard to whether or not it's a good idea to swap the power tubes or experiment with different types of tubes in the YBA-200.
As I said above (and can be verified by any number of people on this forum), the company's personnel actually encourage swapping power tubes in the YBA-200, and the manual also lists numerous types of tubes that the amp was designed to work with.
Again - your experience notwithstanding, if you continue to try to press your point when you are clearly wrong in this particular instance you will demonstrate an unwillingness to take constructive criticism or "back down" in an argument. There are a couple of personalities like that on this forum...but not many...and the ones who are like that are generally either ignored or taken to task. I don't see that as a good way to start on this particular board, so take this post as advice that is meant in a constructive manner. If you have tons of tube amp experience, great - we'd love to have some additional amp gurus like Psycho Bass Guy who really understands tube amplifiers and their components and operation well. Just don't insist on being wrong in this one thread where the original poster is asking a perfectly viable question that is easily answered by the scores of individuals here who actually own, use, gig, and record with this particular amplifier. It's just not cricket.
Bottom line - the snippet of your quote above says that someone shouldn't ask you for your advice if they would prefer not to have it. The original poster asked for advice relating to a particular amplifier....one with which many people on this board have extensive experience. How about letting them handle this one vice turning it into a personal "hill to die on".
Sorry Vicenzajay, I did not notice your post until just now after you pointed it out - I was not trying to ignore you.
Do I own this particular amp? - not anymore I don't, I tried one for a short while, didn't like it so it went. When it comes to safety I am very passionate. I have watched a man die on stage after seeing what he had done to his amp. I said nothing and I will regret that till the day I follow him!
To be fair to everyone here - No I did not read the owners manual - I didn't get one. Nor have I seen the schematic, although I have seen enough amps and auto-bias circuitry have a good idea of what the diagram will be. I was unaware of Yorkville's stand on this issue. The idea of someone with no knowledge of what they were doing possibly coming into contact with the voltages inside this class of amp simply terrifies me.
Fair enough, I'll back away from this issue. I'm wrong on this amp but not all designers are as obliging as Yorkville. Just because you can do it with the YBA-200 doesn't mean you can do the same with every amp out there. However the subject WAS the YBA-200 specifically so I am wrong but I've been wrong before and I'll certainly be wrong again in the future. The one thing I will ask of all of you is if you pull a chassis be very very careful what you touch. Thank you Bassbmx for seeing through to my true intent. I'm glad it worked out for you.
Paul
Do I own this particular amp? - not anymore I don't, I tried one for a short while, didn't like it so it went. When it comes to safety I am very passionate. I have watched a man die on stage after seeing what he had done to his amp. I said nothing and I will regret that till the day I follow him!
To be fair to everyone here - No I did not read the owners manual - I didn't get one. Nor have I seen the schematic, although I have seen enough amps and auto-bias circuitry have a good idea of what the diagram will be. I was unaware of Yorkville's stand on this issue. The idea of someone with no knowledge of what they were doing possibly coming into contact with the voltages inside this class of amp simply terrifies me.
Fair enough, I'll back away from this issue. I'm wrong on this amp but not all designers are as obliging as Yorkville. Just because you can do it with the YBA-200 doesn't mean you can do the same with every amp out there. However the subject WAS the YBA-200 specifically so I am wrong but I've been wrong before and I'll certainly be wrong again in the future. The one thing I will ask of all of you is if you pull a chassis be very very careful what you touch. Thank you Bassbmx for seeing through to my true intent. I'm glad it worked out for you.
Paul
