Double Bass New wheels/trolley idea

[Herbert P....]

Today is launch day of new website which is (hopefully) to sell my new handmade WheelBasses.
See here for more info - http://www.wheelbass.co.uk

All started when I drove past a lorry, noticed it's mudguards and thought - hang on a minute...

Although there are probably other obsessive geeks out there like me, possessed of a large set of tools
and a perverse sense of enjoyment/satisfaction from making something like this, I figured
there are probably some people out there who'd appreciate to not have to get messy with all the tools and fiddling around.

So, doing small batch production of the WheelBass for such folk.

 

[Herbert P....]

Apologies to my North American compadres.
The shipping costs for getting these things over your side of the pond is very (ridiculously) and disproportionately high.

My hope is that maybe a deal could be done at some point with someone, so a pallet-load go over and so greatly reduce individual price to you good people.

(If you are fabulously wealthy, please ignore this reply and I'll eagerly await your order. )

 

[tappingtrance]

Look interesting but does the caddy collapse or is it one piece?

 

[Herbert P....]

Doesn't collapse into smaller package, no, but it can lie flat (as in this pic) or it stands upright very well too, so takes up little space.

 

[Herbert P....]

Sorry about that. Image didn't work first time.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Have you seen these?

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Herbert P....]

Yes Eric. Do know it.

The precursor to the WheelBass was similarly premised on notion of a small 'dolly' - a rubber plate plus castors that fixed to my case with Velcro.
The Velcro deteriorated over time, so wasn't guaranteed to maintain contact.
The relatively small surface area of the dolly also meant shock impacts were transmitted to a small area of the instrument's lower bout, necessitating repairs on two occasions.
This 'cradle' design spreads impacts over much larger area, and that plus the foam lining greatly minimises shock impact effects.

Sorry to be such a geek.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The larger the distance between the wheels the more stable the bass runs.
For that reason I prefer the BassBuggie style.
Also the BassBuggie needs less room for storage and is lighter (I assume).

 

[Herbert P....]

Hi doubleMIDI

Thanks for your thoughts.

I actually really like the Bass Buggy too. It's a great product.

The WheelBass was something that I made for myself, making use of an already existing item (the lorry 'mudguard' which becomes the bass cradle in the WheelBass). Bassists who saw me using it were very curious about it, and generally very complimentary and impressed too, so they began to ask me if I would consider making some.

So I have.

You'll notice that I have endeavoured to keep the price as reasonable as possible, so the set-up costs of bespoke designing and engineering a product would have introduced a massive development cost - probably running to several thousand pounds.
(I did actually research that. The figure is not made up).
I don't have that sort of money, and it's doubtful there are enough double bassists out there to make recouping those costs a 'dead cert'.
Therefore, the wheels I found and use - after quite a bit of trialling of different types and sizes - are very robust, high quality, and they cushion the ride very effectively.
Furthermore they are not too expensive in unit cost terms.

Wheels such as you see on the Bass Buggy would entail the design and build of a unique, non-standard axle assembly, one that would need to be secured in some reliable fashion to the cradle.
Since the existing fixed castors work really well, I discounted the custom axle idea. Not really necessary.

The cradle is lined with foam (10mm thick) and the cradle's size dissipates any bumps and shocks over a large area, so minimising impact on the instrument itself.
Pneumatic wheels would be a bit of a luxury in light of all that.

The cradle extending right on around the lower bout also affords the forward face of the moving bass some bump protection with doors and door frames. Another plus.

The wheels on the WheelBass are wide enough apart to provide a pretty stable ride, unless crosswinds are at gale force - but any trolley or wheel system would struggle with that, the instrument itself acting like a big wind-catching sail.

I didn't set out to "take on the competition" as some people might say. I don't think or work like that, so I'm not about to set out here a list of reasons why someone should buy the WheelBass instead of an alternative product.

Instead, I would ask anyone who has a minute to read through all the information that I have put on the website. It will (hopefully) answer any questions about the design, origin and advantages of the WheelBass.
Then if the reader decides on that basis that they want one, they click through and get one. If they decide not (their instrument may be too small for instance), that's cool too.

Warm regards,

Steve

 

[Michael Eisenman]

Nice idea and good explanation in your previous post. However, I wonder whether--aside from bump protection--the full mudguard is necessary. If not, you can get two trolleys out of one mudguard and save yourself some mfg costs.

Good luck with your venture.

 

[Herbert P....]

Thanks Michael.

Believe it or not, have considered that.
Ultimately, no real gain from the 'halving' idea.
It creates problems and challenges to the manufacturing process and also to the business of attaching to the instrument, so wouldn't represent a saving of any appreciable scale to myself.
Pros outweigh the cons from my p.o.v.
In engineering terms, the more complicated a solution becomes, the more you question the trajectory of the solution.
Simple very often turns out best.

One thing my wife wryly observed - in very heavy, deep-lying snow, turn the instrument through 180 degrees and use the smooth, wheel-less side as a sled, sliding your bass through the snow!
Not recommending that - strictly for giggles you understand.
Don't try that at home folks...
S

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The BassBuggie cannot compete with your sled ;-)

I only wanted to explain that putting the wheels as far away as possible from each other makes a more stable waggon. And the BassBuggie was the most similar product that does this. Only for explanation, maybe for enhancement.

I won't recommend the use of pneumatic wheels if they are rather close together. It enhances the risk of the bass falling sideways.

I built my own remake of the BassBuggie for myself, so I know the problem of mounting the wheels and finding wheels. Took me a few weeks of thinking and trying, but now I have a really nice waggon, probably more stable than the BassBuggie during the next 40 years. Needs a lot of hand work, so not for production (it was only for me or anybody who want's to built it themselves, so I won't get problems with patents).

I would think about using an axis and mounting scooter wheels on the side of the plastic mould. On my Buggie, I used an aluminium tube (does not corrode as fast as steel and fitted the dowel better), finding some long dowel (wall plug) I can use for screwing in an M8 (8mm) screw that fits the inner hole of the ball-bearing of the scooter wheel. My biggest problem was to find a tube and dowel, that fits to the screw. Then the axis was mounted to the plate using three mounting profiles like that: __/\__ (the middle is a bit rounder of course, more like a U top down). Should be possible with your mudgard too, just a bit more work than the industry wheels with the mounting plate, but makes it more stable (and a little bit wider to pass through).

 

[Thooom]

Maybe make the "full" mudguard so that you can attach the wheels on either side? Just a thought.

 

[robobass]

Nice idea and good explanation in your previous post. However, I wonder whether--aside from bump protection--the full mudguard is necessary. If not, you can get two trolleys out of one mudguard and save yourself some mfg costs.

Good luck with your venture.

I was thinking the same thing. That might reduce air freight costs as well.

 

[Herbert P....]

I was thinking the same thing. That might reduce air freight costs as well.

I hear you.

The WheelBass ain't that heavy to begin with (see Secifications page on www). It's the box size that takes the price up.

Still thinking a crate load going over to a supplier 'stateside would be a good solution, someday.

Just to say again - the other side of the cradle does offer a lot of bump protection and added peace of mind in tight situations, and completes the very straightforward mounting process very elegantly too.

But like I say, i'm hearing you, and will continue to think on, as always.

 

[Herbert P....]

Maybe make the "full" mudguard so that you can attach the wheels on either side? Just a thought.

I might've misunderstood what you meant Thooom, but the WheelBass is symmetrical around the endpin access hole, so the user decides which side they want the wheels when they put the instrument in.

Is that what you meant? Apologies if not.

 

[bejoyous]

That looks great.

Maybe use wheels with softer tires to smooth the bumps and transference of vibrations.

 

[Herbert P....]

That looks great.

Maybe use wheels with softer tires to smooth the bumps and transference of vibrations.

I probably said this already above. Apologies if so.

The rubber of the tyres is similar to the rubber used in 'power balls' (at least, that's what they were called when I was a kid), so although it feels tough when you try to compress it with your finger, when in use and with the weight of the bass bearing down on it (them) the bumps and gaps in pavements are greatly absorbed and minimised.
It really surprised me too, when I first tried them.
Quite uncanny really.

Looks can be deceptive.

 

[Herbert P....]

By the way everyone

Just to draw your attention to the fact that a lot of the questions that are popping up here in the forum are actually dealt with on the website itself, so please have a peep on there if you have a moment.

Obviously, ask away if it isn't on there - I may not have thought of everything, though I did try

 

[Thooom]

I might've misunderstood what you meant Thooom, but the WheelBass is symmetrical around the endpin access hole, so the user decides which side they want the wheels when they put the instrument in.

Is that what you meant? Apologies if not.

Oh, OK. I didn't realize you had made it so symmetrical, allowing you to spin it around so the wheels are on the opposite side (nice). Disregard my suggestion. Your design seems pretty cool.