The "Praguar" refinish and upgrade.

[Habilis]

Hi, everyone; this is my first attempt at anything like a build/refin/upgrade ever, so bear with me. This thread will not be a "how-to" thread, unless somehow you know even LESS than I do about this stuff, in which case I pity you.

The background: I own a very nice Big Al which does everything very well except for the P-bass sound, although to be fair, it does it reasonably well. I play in a punk/post-punk band for which that particular sound is kind of important, so I could really use a P-bass. But like so many of us, I can't really shell out $400-$1200 for a good P-bass (to say nothing of vintage, deluxe, etc.) all at once, because that kind of big outlay would send up a big glowing flare on the radar screen of she whom I will call my Financial Supervisor--I think many of you may be in a similar position.

However, small, incremental purchases will slip in under the fiscal radar and so my goal is to assemble the resources necessary to put together a reasonable substitute for an American-made P-bass over the next few months.

What are my resources?
1) I have a Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar (regular scale) Bass with the PJ configuration and a Squier Precision neck, aka "the Jagcision" that I purchased from fellow TBer VintageGuy a few months ago for a mere pittance, for no good reason.

(See figure 1 and 2 for the original)

"Well, isn't that good enough?" you may well ask. Well, here is why it needs some heavy modifying:

1) The Duncan-designed P pickup is pretty thin-sounding, and could use an upgrade.

2) I have no use for the J/bridge pickup. It doesn't sound very good, it spoils the look, and I know I'll never use it.

3) The color: black--yawwn. Like many of us, I am a devoted subscriber to TB's "Rattle-Can Refinish Club" Thread and have been itching to try my hand.

4) The so-called "tortoise-shell" pickguard on this thing is one of the ugliest things I've ever seen. I'm not a big fan of tortoise-shell but I even *I* know it's not supposed to look like the fake-wood paneling in a 1974 Econoline conversion van. So THAT's gotta go...

5) Because it's there. I've got a garage space full of tools I barely know how to use and I'm ready to do some damage!

So here's the plan:

1) Disassemble bass
2) Remove electronics
3) Strip paint down to a refinishable level
4) Fill in J-bass pickup hole with something (questions on that later) and possibly some of the pickguard screw holes if I decide to go with a custom-shaped pickguard.

5) Repaint body and maybe headstock something blue or red with a little bit of flake in it, perhaps something like the EBMM limited edition "Blue Dawn" finish. I LOVE the full-on glittery basses but I don't think I have enough rockstar in me to pull it off on stage. I'll be using spray cans for this, probably not of the nitro variety, because that seems to be a colossal PITA from all I have read. Auto finish, Rustoleum spray cans, possibly even some sort of custom blend through a Preval setup--we'll just have to see how ambitious I can get.

6) Replace Squier basic bridge with a Squier Classic Vibe higher-mass bridge. I liked the feel of the high mass bridge that was on the MIA P-bass I briefly owned, and this $29 bridge I ordered on EBay will hopefully be an acceptable substitute.

7) Replace Squier "Duncan designed" pickup with 2009 MIA American Standard P-Bass pickup, which I just bought for a very reasonable price from fellow TBer "Bassfreakah" and eagerly await...

8) Replace Squier electronics chassis and VT/VT stacked knobs with some kind of P-bass rig and regular V/T pots. There will be LOTS of questions asked about this.

9) Put on white pearl or other pearloid pickguard (depending on final color) that will either be the regulation Squier VM Jag shape or something unique, again, depending on how ambitious I want to get.

Reassemble, Setup, etc. and Play!

--I know by the standards of some of the work in this forum that this project is child's play by comparison, but as a maiden voyage into bass modding it may be that I have bitten off way more than I can chew, so I will be using this thread to ask lots and lots of questions. Hopefully together we will contribute to the sum total of human knowledge, or at least get a good laugh out of it.

Thanks everyone! More updates soon!

Below are 2 of VintageGuy's pics of the Jagcision, which are better than anything I could do, so we'll use those and call them "figures 1 and 2"

 

[Habilis]

OK, round one! Bass has been disassembled, and some REALLY BRUTAL stripping of paint has been done. Every internet source I have read has said not to bother stripping down to the wood, so of course that's exactly what I did, because I only know one way to do things--the hard way!

Using this:

and this:

attached to this:

has yielded me this so far:

This is TOTALLY THE WRONG WAY to do this. I can tell because it looks like a shark attacked it--the lighter colored areas you can see are where the "torture wheel" has gone through the top layer of wood into the squishy delicate layers underneath. These will need to be patched up with wood fill or the like and the whole thing sanded smooth before primer can go on. It's a good thing 'll be using an opaque color because the state of the wood is SHAMEFUL. While I'm shark-weeking the rest of the body, I will pose a question to you, dear readers:

Will I need to use grain filler on a previously-finished body, or can I move right on to sanding and priming? I eagerly await your responses.

 

[seang15]

LOTS AND LOTS of elbow grease await you, brother. I don't want to be in your position...even if "fun." (And I am about to start my third nitro-lacquer translucent-finished bass project in the last several months...they are a mighty PITA but damn FUN. And EVEN I don't envy you lol.)

Not sure what you're going to do to get to true bare wood. Others may suggest the "missing link" between where you are now, and where I suggest you go. But once there:

I would say something like: Sanding-wise: 200, 320, 400.

Once finished with 400 (and this is several hours, perhaps over a few days), see what's going on: Douse the body with water, but using decent paper toweling, or a light rag...and just make believe you are painting it lightly with water. Let it sit overnight. Any kind of pock-marks, fuzzies, etc. will come out. Sand those out with 400. After that:

Time to paint. Follow ReRanch 101. (Google it.) Finished painting?

Back to sandpaper: (LIGHTLY!!) 600, 800, 1000 (or thereabouts)...then go wet-sanding: 1200, 1500, 2000.

Looks good?

Compound and wax.

Others' mileage may vary. And again, I am a nitro guy thus far, this may be a bit inaccurate for what yer doin'. But FWIW, you may as go nitro. Check ReRanch's site.

What is accurate: I don't envy you, brotha.

Peace,
Sean

OK, round one! Bass has been disassembled, and some REALLY BRUTAL stripping of paint has been done. Every internet source I have read has said not to bother stripping down to the wood, so of course that's exactly what I did, because I only know one way to do things--the hard way!

Using this:

and this:

attached to this:

has yielded me this so far:

This is TOTALLY THE WRONG WAY to do this. I can tell because it looks like a shark attacked it--the lighter colored areas you can see are where the "torture wheel" has gone through the top layer of wood into the squishy delicate layers underneath. These will need to be patched up with wood fill or the like and the whole thing sanded smooth before primer can go on. It's a good thing 'll be using an opaque color because the state of the wood is SHAMEFUL. While I'm shark-weeking the rest of the body, I will pose a question to you, dear readers:

Will I need to use grain filler on a previously-finished body, or can I move right on to sanding and priming? I eagerly await your responses.

 

[Hopkins]

OK, round one! Bass has been disassembled, and some REALLY BRUTAL stripping of paint has been done. Every internet source I have read has said not to bother stripping down to the wood, so of course that's exactly what I did, because I only know one way to do things--the hard way!

Using this:

and this:

attached to this:

has yielded me this so far:

This is TOTALLY THE WRONG WAY to do this. I can tell because it looks like a shark attacked it--the lighter colored areas you can see are where the "torture wheel" has gone through the top layer of wood into the squishy delicate layers underneath. These will need to be patched up with wood fill or the like and the whole thing sanded smooth before primer can go on. It's a good thing 'll be using an opaque color because the state of the wood is SHAMEFUL. While I'm shark-weeking the rest of the body, I will pose a question to you, dear readers:

Will I need to use grain filler on a previously-finished body, or can I move right on to sanding and priming? I eagerly await your responses.

I wish I would have seen this thread before you even started stripping the paint. There is really no reason to take it to bare wood, you could have just sprayed your new color over the factory finish. Then you would have just had to spend some time filling in the Jazz rout.

That flapper wheel is designed to be used with a pencil grinder on metal, it should be kept as far away from a piece of wood as possible.

 

[seang15]

^^^ This. Too.

You know anybody with a miller? Mill off 1/8" off the top and bottom, or as little as possible to get flat and back to "normal." Hey, look at this way: Bassists always want their basses lighter. This will help And will get you to wood, then you can do whatever the blank you want with it. Just a thought.

 

[Habilis]

I wish I could explain to you guys how FUN it was to strip the paint off with this thing. Totally worth the hassle of wetting the body and then sanding off the fuzzy lumps, which was my plan A anyway. I know it was not necessary to get it down to bare wood, but I am using this project as a way of getting my feet wet, and I wanted to start from as close to scratch as possible, given my limited resources.

 

[Habilis]

Also, I've changed my mind on the Nitro thing, and I will probably end up using ReRanch Fender Custom Ice Blue Metallic, and the associated primers and clear coats. I like the information they provide as well as the one-stop shopping options. Their website is not so great in terms of navigation, but you can find what you need if you give it time.

 

[seang15]

Also, I've changed my mind on the Nitro thing, and I will probably end up using ReRanch Fender Custom Ice Blue Metallic, and the associated primers and clear coats. I like the information they provide as well as the one-stop shopping options. Their website is not so great in terms of navigation, but you can find what you need if you give it time.

Mill it first, and then sanding sealer. And then sand for the bulk of 2013.

 

[Habilis]

I think that's what I'llcall it: "The Bulk of 2013" Like "the Big Wreck of '09" or "The Blizzard of '96" or whatever.

No milling, just more sanding.

 

[luzceloffan]

hahahaha i know your feeling, my wrists got muscles by now

 

[Beej]

So did you sand it down to the wood? If not, probably best to stop where you are and take stock. Taking it down to the wood is unnecessary and not only adds work in the finish removal process, but also adds work in the finishing process.

In those photos, you have not broken through the good wood to the cheap wood underneath, you've just exposed the hard-as-a-rock-and-impossible-to-chemically-remove polyester sealer coat. If you have not already, don't remove that sealer coat.

If you can, at this point, just sand the surface flat with a flat sanding block by hand before smoothing contours etc.

Seang15, not sure about your experience, but I would not let anyone run a painted surface through my planer, let alone one covered with polyester or anything like it. Not sure if that's what you were referring to by "milling" but that's my 2 cents. Haven't met a woodworker who'd let something like that get done in their shop...

 

[Habilis]

Don't worry guys, there won't be any planing/milling done, so the debate is moot. I'll sand the living sh*t out of it and then cover all the glaring pits, dents, pockmarks, skidmarks, birthmarks and so on with wood fill, Bondo, cream cheese, drywall mud, peanut butter, whatever, until I get it to a smooth surface, in flagrant disregard for the conventions of fine luthiery. This is a $150 bass and I intend to treat it like a Pinto at a demolition derby. If something purty comes out of all this, then great. If it ends up being a total bust I'll chalk it up as lessons learned, strip the parts and put 'em in something a little more prefab.

 

[Hopkins]

Don't worry guys, there won't be any planing/milling done, so the debate is moot. I'll sand the living sh*t out of it and then cover all the glaring pits, dents, pockmarks, skidmarks, birthmarks and so on with wood fill, Bondo, cream cheese, drywall mud, peanut butter, whatever, until I get it to a smooth surface, in flagrant disregard for the conventions of fine luthiery. This is a $150 bass and I intend to treat it like a Pinto at a demolition derby. If something purty comes out of all this, then great. If it ends up being a total bust I'll chalk it up as lessons learned, strip the parts and put 'em in something a little more prefab.

All that being true, I still don't see a reason to not try and do a good job on the refinish. To do a good finish, you have to do your prep work correctly. So please don't get that flapper wheel anywhere close to the front. Just because its a cheap body, doesn't mean it cant be a damn nice bass when completed.

 

[JIO]

All that being true, I still don't see a reason to not try and do a good job on the refinish. To do a good finish, you have to do your prep work correctly. So please don't get that flapper wheel anywhere close to the front. Just because its a cheap body, doesn't mean it cant be a damn nice bass when completed.

I totally agree. In fact - as far as I'm concerned, there's much over-hype of the sonic characteristics of body material etc. You can have an awesome sounding bass w/a cheap body - so why not make it look as good as it could sound? Having said that... to each their own.

 

[Habilis]

It's my plan to have it END UP looking good. It's just that the steps that I take to get it there may not be entirely orthodox.

I have some questions for the peanut gallery:

It's a given that I'm going to fill the J-bass pickup route with *something*. What are your recommendations? Is there anything I can put in there that will enhance the sound/feel/smell in any way? My current plan is to carve a plug of some kind out of doweling or scrap hardwood and glue it in with Loctite, filling in the top as necessary with filler of some kind. I thought about putting in a piece of metal or something, but unless I miss my guess, that would only add to the weight and not to the sustain in any real way, because it would not be physically connected to the bridge. Thoughts?

Second, when I put the P-bass pickup back in, does it make any sense to put it in "upside down?" I remember an Ed Friedland review of a bass with an "inverted" P-bass pickup which pleased him in some way--I forget both the exact reason and the particular bass now... Anybody ever try this? are there any benefits? I'm just spitballin' here....

 

[Habilis]

By the way, PLENTY of time to think on the above... I'll be sanding for weeks if not months more...

 

[seang15]

By the way, PLENTY of time to think on the above... I'll be sanding for weeks if not months more...

Dude, I wouldn't want to arm wrestle you when you're done with that thing!

 

[NightTripper]

Subscribed! I have the same bass (except in sunburst), and while I am happy with it, I'm really interested to see what you will do.

 

[Southway]

It's a given that I'm going to fill the J-bass pickup route with *something*. What are your recommendations? Is there anything I can put in there that will enhance the sound/feel/smell in any way? My current plan is to carve a plug of some kind out of doweling or scrap hardwood and glue it in with Loctite, filling in the top as necessary with filler of some kind. I thought about putting in a piece of metal or something, but unless I miss my guess, that would only add to the weight and not to the sustain in any real way, because it would not be physically connected to the bridge. Thoughts?

Rather than trying to carve a piece of wood to fit, you should consider routing it enough wider to make a rectangular hole. It's then fairly easy to cut a piece of wood to fit. You can either square up the corners of the hole with a wood chisel or round off the corners of the block you cut. If you route it to right at 3/4" deep or just a fuzz shallower, you can cut the block from a 1" board.

 

[JIO]

w/o routing, just cut a piece of rectangular wood that will fill it in tightly using carpenters wood glue to cement it in. Fill all remaining gaps/spaces w/Bondo. Done.