I got a tip from vibist Emil Richards regarding playing uptempo once on a gig; Emil is known for insanely fast tempos! He said that when he's under the gun trying to maintain a fast pace for a long period of time, he starts to feel the quarter notes in groups of three, which helps to relax the feel a bit. I've applied this on occasion, and it seems to work for me; it served me well when I had to play "Cloudburst" with Jon Hendricks at about 500 bpm! Anyone else tried this?
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Double Bass Uptempo Walking
- Thread starter Marcus Johnson
- Start date
Michael Moore would remind me that when the tenor player has finished that 20th chorus of Cherokee and is heading into number 21, it's perfectly legit for the bassist to STOP and let him/her/it proceed. Why, it can even sound downright musical . . .
I feel it in whole notes, or sometimes just melodically. If I start feeling overwhelmed I then concentrate soley on relaxing for a little bit.
Extremely fast tempos don't bother me as much as those tempos that fall right between 1 finger and 2 finger walking as my instincts would have me go for a big sound rather than a more self-defensive, lighter tough. With a tenor player for a father and having been brought up with Pistol Allen (Sonny Stitt's drummer in the Midwest for 10+ years) I've had to endure my share of screaming tempos...
Extremely fast tempos don't bother me as much as those tempos that fall right between 1 finger and 2 finger walking as my instincts would have me go for a big sound rather than a more self-defensive, lighter tough. With a tenor player for a father and having been brought up with Pistol Allen (Sonny Stitt's drummer in the Midwest for 10+ years) I've had to endure my share of screaming tempos...
Marcus, do you really think in groups of three quarter notes when you're playing four?
Lately I've been using 1 finger for almost everything.
Lately I've been using 1 finger for almost everything.
I don't believe any bassist played 500 quarters per minute. Any solo on any instrument at that tempo would be unintelligible.
I have watched Michael Moore play some long eighth note phrases at 310, but that's all they were, solo phrases
I have watched Michael Moore play some long eighth note phrases at 310, but that's all they were, solo phrases
What kind of wimpiness is that? I say you beat the 4/4 measures in one and have whole=500.
-dh (Captain Largo)
Sorry, guys, 500 bpm was a feeble attempt at humor. John H. is also known for some brisk tempo. We rehearsed it during the afternoon, and he said "just play this as fast as you can" so we tore into it. After we finished, the drummer and I sort of stood there and congratulated ourselves for getting thru it. John turns around and says, "well, alright, we'll get it up to tempo tonight"....no, I don't use the 3 against 4 thing every time, just when I feel a litle pressure to keep up. It more a psycological trick than a physical one, similar to the idea of feeling the tune in bars of four.
I'll leave it to Ed to do the math on this one. Drummer John Riley once told me that during hs days with the Woody Herman band they would play INSANELY fast, so much that a chorus of blues was timed by a trumpet player at seven seconds. This is an entire band! Ouch!
I know I'm way late on this discussion, but I'm fairly new to TB.
+1 to what Ray said. When I was in college, I was studying with Jeff Halsey and he had all of us (bass students) play Cherokee @ 400 BPM. We had to keep it there consistently. Halsey always stressed the importance of thinking in "1" when playing up tempos. BTW, Ray, my friends and I always used to come out to Rusty's during "Geneuary"...good times!!
+1 to what Ray said. When I was in college, I was studying with Jeff Halsey and he had all of us (bass students) play Cherokee @ 400 BPM. We had to keep it there consistently. Halsey always stressed the importance of thinking in "1" when playing up tempos. BTW, Ray, my friends and I always used to come out to Rusty's during "Geneuary"...good times!!
It's easiest for me if I pat my foot on 1 and 3. It helps me play more relaxed, and even if I fumble a little bit the time stays together. Another thing is to practice with the metronome on 2 and 4. If you can feel 2 and 4 way uptempo then when the beat gets flipped, which it is certain to at some point, you can fix it and avoid the train wreck. Also just get used to the fact that there will be some questionable note choices.
As long as people are sharing stories of insane tempos, I may as well share my horror story. I did a gig with the pianist Johnny O'neal, and he called Swamp Fire by Duke Ellington, which I don't really know very well anyway. The tune was so fast I literally couldn't play quarter notes for a measure, and I spent the entire tune trying to get started, screwing up after about three or four beats, waiting a measure or two to try and come back in, and repeating the process. When we started the next song I had this feeling like "What just happened?" You'll think I'm exaggerating, but this was definitely 500+bpm.
As long as people are sharing stories of insane tempos, I may as well share my horror story. I did a gig with the pianist Johnny O'neal, and he called Swamp Fire by Duke Ellington, which I don't really know very well anyway. The tune was so fast I literally couldn't play quarter notes for a measure, and I spent the entire tune trying to get started, screwing up after about three or four beats, waiting a measure or two to try and come back in, and repeating the process. When we started the next song I had this feeling like "What just happened?" You'll think I'm exaggerating, but this was definitely 500+bpm.
I try to feel everything in 4/4 regardless of tempo on 2 and 4. I remember a did a gig a while ago with a tenor player that played with the Inkspots. It was a drummerless trio with a piano player filling out the trio. After the first set he said "Man, your time is solid but where's 2 and 4? You gotta sit on those *******!" Ever since I make sure that I feel 4/4 swing that way.
I know I've mentioned it here before, but playing with a gypsy jazz group can really help one get comfortable at extremely fast tempos. No drummer to fall back on. We did the Hawaii International Jazz Fest on Sunday, and the great saxophonist Dave Choy was a guest with us. The first tune was "Dark Eyes", which eventually winds up at an insane pace. After we finished, Dave turned around and said "You guys are crazy".
I had a funny experience last night. We were playing a club gig. You know how sometimes people bang silverware on tables, ashtrays, etc., trying to play along? Usually it's just flat out irritating, a distraction. Anyway, we were playing at a really fast clip, and some guy starts whacking on the table with his butter knife, just for about four bars, and very tastefully and at a perfect volume, perfect swinging time. He was just doing it distractedly, not even really aware he was doing it, I think. Afterwards, I went over to say hi to him, and he says "Hi, I'm Les DeMerle". I just cracked up... suddenly, it all made sense!
I had a funny experience last night. We were playing a club gig. You know how sometimes people bang silverware on tables, ashtrays, etc., trying to play along? Usually it's just flat out irritating, a distraction. Anyway, we were playing at a really fast clip, and some guy starts whacking on the table with his butter knife, just for about four bars, and very tastefully and at a perfect volume, perfect swinging time. He was just doing it distractedly, not even really aware he was doing it, I think. Afterwards, I went over to say hi to him, and he says "Hi, I'm Les DeMerle". I just cracked up... suddenly, it all made sense!
- May 6, 2003
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- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Personally, any tunes I'm playing that fast are usually ones with such standard harmony or I've played them a lot anyway, so I just outline the harmony by ear, whereas at slower tempos I can put some more choice into what I'm playing, because at fast tempos I want only one thing on my mind: time. My ensemble teacher has stressed the point of walking like Ray Brown with that push and swing...it helps that most of the tunes we're playing are very uptempo, so I get a lot of practice with this.
While playing that fast, I generally feel everthing in four still. Putting a small accent on 2 and 4 is difficult for me to do if I'm feeling the rhythm in 2 or 3, whereas it feels natural now if I'm feeling it in 4.
While playing that fast, I generally feel everthing in four still. Putting a small accent on 2 and 4 is difficult for me to do if I'm feeling the rhythm in 2 or 3, whereas it feels natural now if I'm feeling it in 4.
- Jul 8, 2009
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- A&R, Soulless Corporation Records
- Jul 8, 2009
- 1,612
- 11
- Disclosures
- A&R, Soulless Corporation Records
