Double Bass Stability While Standing

moopants said:

I got spoiled on playing while sitting on a stool, which I have no problems doing. When I stand up, I have some trouble keeping the bass steady while bowing and changing positions quickly (Bach). Any others who have had this problem?

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Ja, I really can't play standing up anymore. And I sometimes wonder how I ever managed to play that way before.

I think everyone does - bowing while shifting between thumb and neck positions, that is. Many soloists choose to perform standing, but I doubt anyone would deny that it's more difficult. You've just gotta practice that much more, and try to get teachers, colleagues, (and maybe a full length mirror) to help you find the best possible standing position.

I don't do much arco but allowing the bass to move makes things a whole lot easier. When you go for TP playing, let the bass fall into you, and when you go back to lower registers, you have to push it away. Bowing E string may involve twisting the bass a little bit. You have to work it like a dance partner.

Well, theres always the rabbath way of holding the bass. It didnt take me long to adapt, and now shifting is much easier as the bass stays still even without using your hands, meaning the cross-over between regular positions and thumb positions is no longer a trouble at all. Not sure how how popular it still is amongst new players, but it didnt cost me much to make a bent end pin from hardware store supplies and I havent looked back.

Apart from not having to use your hands to hold the bass, the other advantages I see are that you stand with even balance on both feet, and theres more usage of the weight of your arms to hold down notes.

JtheJazzMan said:

Well, theres always the rabbath way of holding the bass. It didnt take me long to adapt, and now shifting is much easier as the bass stays still even without using your hands, meaning the cross-over between regular positions and thumb positions is no longer a trouble at all. Not sure how how popular it still is amongst new players, but it didnt cost me much to make a bent end pin from hardware store supplies and I havent looked back.

Apart from not having to use your hands to hold the bass, the other advantages I see are that you stand with even balance on both feet, and theres more usage of the weight of your arms to hold down notes.

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Can you elaborate on this a bit? I should know the details, but don't. What you describe sounds like what I try to do. Equal weight on both feet, straight posture, and keeping the bass still. I move my shoulders in and out a lot to get to the different positions, but try to keep the bass in one place. I do use my left knee alot for certain shifts. Does Rabbath advocate that? Also, the bent pin is a factor. Anyone know how many soloists who stand are doing the bend?

From the horses mouth:
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moopants said:

I got spoiled on playing while sitting on a stool, which I have no problems doing. When I stand up, I have some trouble keeping the bass steady while bowing and changing positions quickly (Bach). Any others who have had this problem?

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When I stood with a straight endpin I always lamented the fact that you can't have equal access and weight on all strings without moving the bass. I've been playing with a Laborie endpin for the last few years and I can play the bass with much more ease and put an equal amount of weight on all the strings.

If you feel so inclined, I would recommend trying out a teacher who knows much about the Laborie endpin and advocates it's use for solo playing although I'm not sure if there are any around you.

robobass said:

Can you elaborate on this a bit? I should know the details, but don't. What you describe sounds like what I try to do. Equal weight on both feet, straight posture, and keeping the bass still. I move my shoulders in and out a lot to get to the different positions, but try to keep the bass in one place. I do use my left knee alot for certain shifts. Does Rabbath advocate that? Also, the bent pin is a factor. Anyone know how many soloists who stand are doing the bend?

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I would always have to use my left knee, which I didnt like on jazz gigs because Id be standing with my weight on 1 leg for hours.

As hdiddy put up, theres pics of rabbath holding the bass, but basically he holds it as follows:

Once you have your bent endpin, hold the neck of your bass at the heel of the neck, out at arms length with your arm straight foward. Then simply lay the bass back into your chest, so youre standing behind the bass.

You will need the bend end pin because when holding the bass this way, it will probably want to fall to the left, so you need to offset the balance sideways, but also backwards because with a straight endpin, the bass is like a big lever pressing into your chest. The endpin bent backwards lessens the force of the bass that you feel on your chest, and keeps the bass stable.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=560920&highlight=

This was my DIY endpin thread. If you have some skills with fibreglass or CF you can make a rock solid endpin.

Oh yeah, and the art of the bow DVD covers all this. Its well worth checking it out.

I'm a jazz player who only started playing orchestrally recently and I have never been able to bow while standing. I play pizz standing all the time, but I end up balancing the bass with my right thumb on the edge of the fingerboard.

Sitting just seems so intuitive when bowing. It leaves my left hand much more free and gives me one less thing to think about.

I've had a couple people explain the proper stance to me but I cannot get the bass to stand comfortably without one of my hands supporting it. I'm about 6'2". I'm not huge but I do have a slight gut I guess. Would this be my issue? It would be great to have someone describe a good stance.

I'm still trying to find a teacher that can help me stand correctly with my fat gut and short frame.

I always end up shifting some of the weight from hand to hand and then playing arco, forgetaboutit.

So I sit. One bun on a stool, one leg on the ground one on a high rung, knee in the back of the bass. It angles in and sits without me having to hold it with my hands.

Someday I'll learn how to stand, I'll find a fat teacher who stands and they'll show me how.

Uncletoad said:

Someday I'll learn how to stand, I'll find a fat teacher who stands and they'll show me how.

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This must be the key for me.

P.S.

That sounds almost EXACTLY how I sit when I play

Only recently (past few years) have I been able to comfortably play while standing and I've been playing for some time now. The bicycle analogy best explains how it happened. Even though I can play while on my feet I still have more facility when sitting so that's my choice especially in orchestra.

i've only played standing. the few times i've tried sitting, it felt a little awkward. i don't use a bent endpin or anything, but i've known many people who have had great results with it. it doesn't matter what you do, so long as you can finesse the instrument in all positions without needing to use the left hand to support it. assuming that you can, the only trade-off i see is that you may lose a little sound if your knee or leg is on the back of the instrument while sitting. it's pretty miniscule, but it does make a difference. on the other hand, standing through a 3-hour rehearsal requires an insane amount of endurance. many people that i have played with think that i'm crazy to do it. some people have even told me that it's only a matter of time until i sit down. i just wear a really good pair of shoes for long rehearsals.

personally, i just feel more engaged while standing. also, i find that i can use the balance of the instrument to my advantage - in a very long performance or rehearsal if i begin to feel left hand fatigue, i can shift the balance more forward. i find that having greater flexibility actually helps me to avoid strain. if you choose to stand, a good way that you can set up your balance point on a daily basis is by doing 2 octave vomits. doing these every day really helps me know the balance of every position on the bass so that shifting isn't a problem in thumb position or across the break. since i don't play sitting, i can't say which is easier to negotiate, but this is what works for me.

+1 about the trade offs between standing and sitting. This past week I sat in on two Rabbath masterclasses as he has spent the week in Texas, and he talked about the advantages of standing, one of the biggest ones being the greater resonance of the bass. While instructing one student who sits, he told him to try standing, and the sound was very noticably better. He had the student repeat the same passage again both sitting and standing, and once again, the difference in the greater resonance was noticeable. So Rabbath told that student to stand from now on.

That was enough to convince me, so I'm going to learn to stand now.

The reason I asked initially was because I wish I could stand. When standing, the bass seems to resonate more (on top of the fact that my head is more forward so I can just plain hear it better). If I can figure out how to stand and play arco I would probably do that more often than not.

Likewise. I'd prefer to stand, I think I look dorky with my ass in a seat.

Anybody have a short fat teacher who stands?

I try and spend time standing both with a regular endpin and with an angled endpin. but I find the angled endpin to be much more comfortable. As square bear mentioned, doing vomits while standing is really the best way to learn how to navigate the bass.

Uncetoad, I can understand your plight. It wasn't until I lost some weight that I realized how much it was getting in the way.

Flanning said:

When standing, the bass seems to resonate more (on top of the fact that my head is more forward so I can just plain hear it better).

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I don't think this is best for your posture. Maybe our local Alexander expert could weigh in on this.