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What Makes This Song Great (Toto Content)
- Thread starter Altitude
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Here's a question...WHY isn't it good? WHAT makes it NOT good? I'm not getting it! If it's NOT good, why then is it popular and enjoyed by many? How can music be NOT good but best selling? He may not say it as a universal statement but he's 'deeming' it NOT good. He's not acknowledging that it isn't for him personally. The statement 'Not Good' is what puzzles me. Sorry, not going for it.
Again, he didn't say it isn't good. He said being popular doesn't make it good. I am certain he can explain why he doesn't like it, if that's true. I don't see why you're so bent out of shape, frankly.
I think it's possible that's exactly what it means. What other way would you define whether a song is "good" without bringing your own opinion into the definition?
Not being combative, I'm actually interested in this question on an academic level, have been for a while.
Now that is what you call "a significant question."
It would take about six semesters of philosophy classes to answer that question in a non-trivial manner. Because the question: "What constitutes the One, the True, the Good?" goes all the way back to the dawn of philosophy. You could even argue that determining what constitutes "good" or "goodness" is the central question at core of philosophy itself.
I can't answer that question in 25 words or less.
Has nothing to do with being a snob. Stop being so sensitive.
I know it's the thing these days in school to teach the kids to not have an opinion, or offer a critical perspective on anything, and for everyone to "play nice" and just not say anything.
If you're more comfortable not saying you don't like something, that's all well and good. However, I'd like to suggest that despite some folks trying to turn the world into a safe space, life itself is one big value judgement. And despite what some may wish, your works and deeds will be judged, labeled, and commented on. The human brain works mainly in a binary fashion. It compares and contrasts in order to reach a conclusion or learn something. So it weighs everything in the balance and makes its judgments accordingly.
If I don't think something is good, I don't personally get why some people would get annoyed or upset about it. Disagree and move on. If someone is insecure in their own convictions and opinions I don't know what to suggest other than to say put some time into figuring out why you like and dislike what you do, and what you believe. That way you won't fall apart whenever someone disagrees with you.
A couple of minor points:
Nowhere did I say anything wasn't good. I said I didn't like Toto's music as much as I might because I thought there were some bad judgement calls in two of their songs. And that those two songs could be better if they were less over produced. I also said in a second post that I didn't equate sales with something being a great song. So I'm not sure where your characterization of people being snobs comes into play at all.
Ok. That's an opinion. And a well expressed one. Create your own art. A musician/musicians art is their art. They create the music for themselves. However, I loved what they did. Pamela started smooth then went funky. Africa is a great tune. Fine as it is. My opinion. I can have a great discussion when it's put this way. I respect opinions.
I have a problem with the bolded and underlined above statement though. Is that a blanket statement??
Overproduced or underproduced.....who cares! It's their music the way they want it. The video is about what makes the song a great one. It is a great song. Sorry if you don't dig it.
No need to be sorry. I don't feel threatened or hurt if someone disagrees with me over something. If I think Toto's Roseanna is good rather than great despite it showing some sheer brilliance in places, I don't see why that should stop anyone who has a different opinion from enjoying the song or thinking that it's great number. I was simply expressing an opinion based on the reasons I gave that it could have been better as a leaner more focused song.
I remember when that was on the radio and before I bought the album I wanted the fadeout to last longer because the guitar was killing. I could never understand the snark factor against these guys, song/studio craft of the highest order.
One of the huge disappointments in my music "career" came when a band I was in during the late 90s learned this. We NAILED the vocals. (I sang high backups.) We took the time to get it right. I think we spent half of a rehearsal on that one song.
When we finished playing it at the bar...… crickets. Grunge had murdered music by then. It was too late. Anything high-production was seen as "cheesy" by that time.
I was at the Hilton lobby on my first namm and there was a cover band paying Stevie Wonder's Superstition with Doug Wimbish sitting in on bass. They finish, Wimbish leaves the stage. I go get a drink and as I'm hanging out, I hear Hold The Line and the singer is just nailing everything. Turn around, it's Kimball!
Not much, if any at all. IMO, iconic Hungate recordings like the "Grease" soundtrack, and his work with Toto and Boz Skaggs show a preference for a natural bass sound, using light application of EQ and compression to get there.
Same here. Just not my style, too poppy. But of course, really really good musicianship and production. (I dunno, maybe it was just the name of the band?)
It's from a suite of isolated parts from "Rosanna" that sound genuine. Lukather has also commented on these isolated YouTube tracks during press junkets for his last book and didn't say they weren't legitimate.
